User talk:CARAAMON

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Crafted items and semantic search

So I recently created a specific item page for the ribbed cougar-bone aventail becuase I was interested specifically in that item as a whole. It's both a "ribbed aventail" recipe, but also made of cougar bone material. So I was making an effort to create a generic "ribbed aventail" recipe page that would use a semantic query to fill out all the different bone types from their armor items. For example, the "ribbed cougar-bone aventail" and the "ribbed rat-bone aventail", etc. would all show up there. I see that you redirected the page away from the specific item and back to the recipe's page, but that defeats my goals. I was hoping these crafted items could show up in armor queries. Do you have a plan for how to represent crafted items that you can explain to me so I don't keep stepping on peoples' toes? Juugcatm 15:38, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Take a look at Weapon:Carving knife (metal). That's how we've been doing it so far, though I admit it's only been for weaponry. The important factor is to have a setup that works for both metal, bone, and leather armors/shields.

The problem is when you look at each and every possible combination of item piece plus material, you end up with a huge number of combinations, especially when you toss in reinforcing and lightening.

My thought was to have one page for armor type (since in theory all armor pieces of the same type and material have the same properties, excepting hindrance and weight) and then an individual page for each piece that will list hindrance and weight.

That being said, if you want to do a mock up of your idea, just indicate it's a test page and I'd be more than happy to hammer out the details. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 13:27, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Armor:Ribbed Bone Armor (crafted) and Armor:Ribbed aventail (crafted)‎ is how I imagine it working. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 13:33, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm getting the impression

You're "suggesting" that we All Capitals the monster pages. Almaz 08:10, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Correct. That's been the way monster articles have been named since before I took up the reigns of the site. Why? Dunno, but it's a bit late to change it. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 08:12, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

While I'm not really that fussed about it, it does get awkward when linking in actual articles, since wood trolls would, for instance, be linked as wood trolls, and it auto-capitalizes the first letter (making it transparent with first-in-sentence capitalizations in English) but not the second. Capitalizing it seems to require substantially more effort. Almaz 08:27, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Bestiary Level List

How does the table generate values for things like min/max rank caps? If I edit an individual critters page to update the min/max caps, will it reflect in the table, or do I have to edit the table itself? I can't seem to figure out how to do the latter. If it doesn't auto-update, is there an easy way to make that happen?--Luckysevens 18:30, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

The Bestiary Level List is automatically populated by data from the individual creature pages. --Isharon 05:51, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

What Ish said. It draws it's data from each of the individual critter pages. If you edit those, then it will alter the table, though there may be some lag between the two. If you do make an edit and it never seems to pop up, then edit the level list page, make no edits, then save it. That should refresh it. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 05:54, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Gotcha, looks like I was just being impatient. :) Thanks! --Luckysevens 18:14, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Shard alchemy shop pyramid

So I have an item that is purchased from a shop catalog, and the catalog link is just 'Wayerd pyramid', but when you buy it, you get 'a bone-trimmed wayerd pyramid'. The shop link currently points to a generic 'wayerd pyramid' item page. Want me to go ahead and just make up the correct item and let you worry about the shop link? The shop is Shard's Osut'vie. --Kythryn 06:19, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Shop is fixed. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 06:22, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Item is made too. I've made a note how you did that in case I come across something else like that again. --Kythryn 06:31, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Great. Happy to help! -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 06:32, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

alchemy-ish items

Ok, new question before I start in on my next round of adding in new alchemy stuffs. Bottles, jars, jugs. Things like this are useful in alchemy now for consolidating water from a fresh water source, but they don't have any analyze to them because they aren't tools. I'll be making a note of how many parts of liquid each will contain in my sandbox notes, do you want me to add that as a 'free text' note to the e-pedia listings too? And since they are alchemy-ish, I want to make sure you want them tagged with the 'alchemy' property as well (even though they aren't tools).
And, in practice, jugs & bottles are the same thing (containers with 'stoppers'), do you want separate top pages for these if we consider them 'alchemy tools' or do we have just a single top page and mention in the descriptive text there are different types (jugs, bottles, beakers, etc.)?
Also, I was working to bring in-line all the primary alchemy tool pages to match the Wayerd pyramid page and saw that the Unlonchai bucket page had been redirected to unlonchai bucket. Can I go ahead and put it back to the Unlonchai bucket so that it matches the other tool top pages?
Thanks! --Kythryn 05:38, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

If the jugs, bottles, etc. are no longer used for mixing or anything but collecting water, then they're not alchemy tools, they're just odd containers, so go ahead and pull off the alchemy tags. Go ahead and pick a generic term if they all act the same, just note they come in a variety of forms. Go ahead and add container amount, no issues there.

From now on, assume that if it doesn't have an analyze, it's not a tool (for those crafts that are released) unless you can think of a good idea why not. My preference would be to err on the side of labeling too many things, rather than too few, as it would be far harder to dig through "not tools" looking for the "semitools" compared to just skipping over a couple of "semitools" when going through the tool list. However, I'll leave it to your judgement.

For ease of use, if an item is used in one of the old crafts, but not the new ones (for those released) don't label it as a tool for that craft. For example, the tincture jars (at least, I don't think they're used now, ignore if they are). Eventually the supply of old herbs/etc. will be gone and they won't be usable, but by then we'll probably have forgotten.

Also, go ahead with the bucket page, make a top page, as I expect they'll start coming in a variety of forms like the pyramids, eventually.

And as always, if I've overlooked something that makes any of these suggestions stupid, go ahead and work out something that works better. I'm not nearly as tyrannical as the constant beheadings would indicate. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 13:34, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

That is the shield that was not put in correctly

http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Shield:Circular_buckler_painted_with_a_smiling_face

The Polished uenlata crafted with shariza handgrips‎ is from 2010 a simple search shows tons of people selling it so again not an alter.

The problem is I can never tell whether it's several items being sold separately, or one item making the rounds of various characters. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 06:07, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Searching Forum Posts

Sometimes I remember which GM posted something I want to look up, and it'd be nice to be able to have a query to search for archived posts under that GM. Is there an easy way to do that currently? Normally I just use a wildcard search for the GM's name, but the results are pretty ugly. --Zamara 18:18, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Eh... yeah. When I have a moment, I can set it up. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 21:42, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Added, but it will take a while for the database to be fully populated. Property:Posted by. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 02:07, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

New Form for Player-Owned Boats/Ships and support

Looking over the information for the player owned ships, I find that it's pretty lacking in information on the actual ships out there. I'd like to suggest a form for adding the information in there, and support for searching/listing the information as well as a category for Player-Owned Boats. I see from your archive that you've been asked in the past for help setting up a table. Unfortunately, the old roster on Kraelyst's site is down so I'll be attempting to build up this information from scratch. --hexedbythenet 19:41, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

It would also be need to add a link to the ships page either to the "player" section or the "world" section on the front page. :)--hexedbythenet 19:59, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

If I'm understanding you right, you want a form for PC boats like Form:Weapon? I'm not entirely sure that's necessary, or even reasonably easy. Forms work oddly, and I'm not sure they're suited for that. Let me think on it. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 23:37, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

The form would just make it easier to log the information from the 50+ boats. It would also make going though the existing listings easier. Start with the page name/boat name. Select player owned or public. Put information for Rooms, Pilot, Captain, etc. If a form would be unreasonable, a template could also work for what I envision. Have all ships go into the Category:Boats and split that into two sub-categories for Public Vessels and Private Ships. I pretty much picture this looking like a list of the boats with each page containing information displayed in the same manner as a shop would instead of the paragraph of text approach. --hexedbythenet 17:17, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Ahhh, that is more doable. I thought you wanted a form for setting up a listing on a single page. Yes, that can be done. What information fields would you like present in the form/template? -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 18:49, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Awesome. I think fields for the following criteria would make the most sense. First, Public or Private vessel. Second, type of vessel. (I think these would make good options for selection: ferry, cog, cutter, brig, galleon, skiff, frigate, barge, schooner, sand barge, air ship, gondola and animal.) Third would be Rooms total, broken down into three sections. (I think these should be the following: on mast, on deck, below deck.) A section for the Pilot/Driver/Operator name. A section for the Captain's name if applicable (like the public transpo to islands have the Captains doing the wheelwork, not Pilots.) And lastly, a section for Notes on the vessel. Stuff like history for public boats and auction boats. Places for ship owners to add details about their vessel. ETC.

I think this would be amazing to house in just the Travel section now that I think about this and present this less as a template for boats specfically, but more as a template for adding in the information for the various travel services both game provided and player owned. Animal section could not only include the sea mammoths, but also perhaps even horses and all those other odd racial mounts. Giving all those methods of getting around a nice umbrella to rest under. How does that sound?--hexedbythenet 20:27, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

That's going to be a bit of a large task, as I'd have to write both a form and a template. Okay, I'll start on it when I have some time and motivation. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 01:51, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

I totally understand. However, I'm sure you would agree that it would be a huge step toward organizing the travel section as a whole and providing the information in a clean manner. I appreciate you taking the time to consider this and if you could just drop a message on my talk page whenever you decide to take it on, I'd appreciate that too. Thank you. --hexedbythenet 02:32, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Search Functionality

--Elriic 19:39, 25 August 2013 (UTC) - Hey Caraamon, do you guys have the incategory search option disabled? If so, could it be enabled? Trying to help someone do some research which needs to be narrowed down to the http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Category:Book category, but the standard wiki search keyword doesn't appear to be working.

Through the standard search or the advanced search? As far as I'm aware, absolutely nothing has been done to the search. It should be completely standard. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 21:22, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Advanced search. Try it. If you search for Bardic incategory:Book If should be returning only items in the Book category and is returning other stuff too. --Elriic 21:58, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure where you got those terms, but as far as I can tell they're not part of the basic mediwiki search. They might be part of a more advanced search package you can install. Do you happen to know which? -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 22:12, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

incategory's a basic search function. (I think, I haven't set up a wiki myself in about 10 years). At any rate, I'm curious, what engine are you using to produce your search results? Do you have a sphinx server running standalone? Are you caching the data at all or are you doing hardcore fulltext searches on the database tables. If you're doing this, we need to talk as there's some serious optimizations we can do that'll save processor time, cut down lag, and generally make things a lot more awesome. --Elriic 10:38, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Using whatever basic search engine comes with the mediawiki package. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 00:22, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

When is a good time for us to talk? --Elriic 20:27, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Any time I'm online, I'm up for chatting. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 23:43, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Weapon elemental properties not showing?

It looks like the longsword crafted from pure flame should be showing that it does fire damage, but I don't think the weapon template is set to actually show that. --TEVESHSZAT 18:02, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I need to add that, but I don't have enough time right now to fully add it. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 00:42, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

weapon incomplete bug thing?

I'm not sure why the Jewel-hilted Gnomish long blade incised with a blood channel is convinced that it should have a third weapon type entered into it. --TEVESHSZAT 17:46, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Seems to be a thing with all 2-mode swapable weapons like the Dwarven tunneler's axe or bastard sword. But the ristes are still working because they've got all three. --Otterino 18:17, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Huh, sounds like I added a bug when I was messing around. Lemmie take a peek. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 02:23, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to blame Tev for this, cause I want to. That thing that couldn't possibly have been my fault under any possibly circumstances (possibly) mysteriously fixed itself. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 02:30, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

It's QC in Plat all over again! --TEVESHSZAT 15:47, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Re-direct request

Because I am still scared of breaking the world (aka. epedia...:P), in retrospect this page:
http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Ulhari
should be "Ulhari prisim" instead. Sorry, was just in the 'adding new materials' zone. --Kythryn 06:58, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

ugh, looks like there are 2 to do, sorry! I tried looking through HELP on how to do redirects myself, either it's an admin thing or I'm losing my mind. Anyhow, in addition to the Ulhari prisim thing above, the TARINAS page should be redirected to the TARINA page. Both got crated, but looks like the non-plural one is the one that's getting the information-love. Thanks again! --Kythryn 17:43, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Redirects are fairly simple.

#REDIRECT [[where you want it to go]]

Just make sure that's the first code on the page. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 22:47, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Perfect, thanks Caraamon! This will lead me to my next question too, which I'll put on a new sub-section...:P --Kythryn 14:44, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Crafting material pages

So I thought I was making up the BONE item pages the same as how you'd made up the METAL item pages, but now I see you're starting to do re-directs on them to other page names. First off, sorry! Guess I should have just done one and gotten you to look it over first. So, with that in mind, do you want to go ahead and do the first leather item up (right now, looks like Antelope skin), so I have a template to do the other leather items that way too so that you won't have to go back and fiddle them later? Not trying to make more work for you...:) --Kythryn 14:51, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I'm still testing it, trying to find the way that makes the most sense. Metals and stones are fairly simple, as they always are obvious what they are. Skin and bones isn't always quite so straightforward. I list them in stack form for a couple reasons:

So people can easily match what's in their pack to crafting stats.
Because some skin/bones we can't actually attribute to a specific creature yet or come from multiple creatures.
Because some skin/bones is very oddly named.
Because some similarly named items might end up being very different (Snow Goblin bones might end up different than Elven Pixie Forest and Plains Goblin bones) and so having a Goblin Bone page could cause issues.

That being said, this is a wiki and not my personal little fiefdom, so if you think you have a better way to do it, PLEASE give it a shot. I watch all the changes on the site (or at least try), so even if I disagree and change it, some part of your idea may end up being far better. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 19:01, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

You may not claim the title, but we all know: You're king of the Elanthipedia Kingdom...:).

So, on the stack vs. no-stack thing, I see where you're coming from. But, on the flip side of that, if you're looking to match what is in a pack, why not lumium shard or silk cloth or onyx rock? I mean, the only thing you can (currently) pick up from it's name is a prepared healing herb (ie. crushed belradi moss becomes crushed belradi), everything else you see as a "cloth" or an "ingot" or whatever. (not trying to be difficult here, but seems like the other materials already have their "qualifier" stripped off, so why not with Bone & Leather too).

And, we do already have Goblin Bone and Pale Goblin Bone (thanks to Antendren checking a snow goblin question I had) so I do suspect that if the GM's release something from 2 similar creatures, they will give it a separate name. Hopefully. Probably. Maybe.

At the end of the day, I don't really care how we proceed with this, I'm happy to help populate everything. --Kythryn 00:55, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

And because I'm just itching to do something with this tonight it seems, I have been playing around with Caracal-pelt Leather, including the base pelt and made a test table under the COMMON LEATHER section on the Crafting Materials page. Let me know what you think, make changes, etc. Thanks! --Kythryn 03:32, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Perfect! -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 06:07, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Trader Owned Shops & ilink (or similar)

Sooo...I was driving home earlier...er, Kythryn was taking the gondola back to Ilithi earlier...heh...and I was thinking about how it might be interesting to have the Trader Owned Shops be able to use ilink, like the festival shops do. Maybe only something similar to how ilink works though, by calling a link to the target page if it's already in the system, but slightly different (ie. a new template or whatever called "tlink" or "tloot") to keep the crafting material page from blowing up with common things. What I was imagining was a way to allow the item on a shop table to link FROM a Trader Shop page to the item page directly, but would go through a "search clearing house" when going back TO the Trader Shop page if that item was called in a search or SOURCE/MATERIAL automatic listing.
For example, when someone searches epedia for say item:bear-bone stack, not only would Zasele's Rewards and similar come up, but if a trader had some on one of their tables, it would also show up as a search link. You'd see as a Source on the Crafting Material page "bear bones, Zasele's Rewards, Darkbox, Trader Shops", and when you clicked on the "Trader Shops" it would list all the shops currently run by players that are carrying that item. It would, I imagine, encourage more traders to come post their stuff here on epedia. And, it would be another handy way for people looking for stuff to have a way to cross-link what they need with where they can get it.
Just something to mull over. I'm (slooowly) getting used to wiki-code, maybe someday I'll have enough mad-skilz to tinker around with trying to make that work. But, it might be something easy to code and play around with too. I just don't know! But I did want to put the idea out into the epedia universe as maybe something to put on the future projects list to think about. --Kythryn 02:07, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Interesting idea. I'll have to think about it. I think a search page might be a better solution. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 02:11, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Question

Any reason for rolling back all the zeros I put into the crafted gloves/armor pages so that you could sort them properly? Sorting doesn't work if some entries have the zero and or others go over 10... Wepwaet (Nov 25th)