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== Wiki Question - Item Form, Advanced Options Item Type Proper Usage? ==
Elanthipedia is returning HTTP 500 errors, so I can't create a new User Sandbox page. So, let's test some stuff here in the Talk...


Hoping you can help me. What is the proper usage for the Item Type field under Advanced Options in the Item Form? Specifically, do all crafting tools need to have their tool type placed in this field or only ones that have multi-word types like mixing stick? Or, is neither the case? --[[User:VMPHNTRD|VMPHNTRD]] ([[User talk:VMPHNTRD|talk]]) 18:22, 28 October 2020 (CDT)
{{Necro}}
: I don't personally engage with the crafting system at all, so I'm not quite as familiar with how all the tools are setup. It appears the standard folks have adopted is to have their tool type placed in this field, yes.
:* Item Types can be, and usually are, multi-word. The primary way we use <code>itype</code> is for semantic queries. You can have a bunch of items that do the same basic thing and, when tagged with an Item Type, we can set up dynamic tables (e.g. all the tables on the [[Regeneration Items]] page) to find/list them all (even if they don't share a common noun).
:* Not all item lists are setup using Item Types. In your specific example, [[Mixing stick]], that last table — the one that actually shows the variants — is actually using an older query (<code>Template:TSearch</code>) and it's literally looking for items with the "mixing stick" in the tap. So if there's a mixing stick that isn't named with that ''exact phrase'' the page won't show it. Item Types are superior, but they require extra effort on our parts to setup. <br>—[[User:TK-421|TK-421]] ([[User talk:TK-421|talk]]) 19:33, 28 October 2020 (CDT)
::*Wow! Now that is a thorough explanation. Thank you! --[[User:VMPHNTRD|VMPHNTRD]] ([[User talk:VMPHNTRD|talk]]) 19:54, 28 October 2020 (CDT)


== prefix index bug? ==
'''Risen''' are long-term minions created by [[Necromancer|Necromancers]]. Nothing forces a Necromancer to create a Risen, but they are the guild's big thing. They will cause the most [[outrage]] of anything you can do, so it behooves you to pick one and keep it around as long as possible.


It looks like [[Special:PrefixIndex]] doesn't trigger properly if you use <nowiki>{{FULLPAGENAME}}</nowiki> when there is an apostrophe in the page's name (aka: [[Akigwe's Legacy: Secrets of the Tower]]). Entering the name manually into the code vs using <nowiki>{{FULLPAGENAME}}</nowiki> works out fine, though. No major problem, but just so it's on your radar, if that's a thing that can even get resolved. --[[User:TEVESHSZAT|TEVESHSZAT]] ([[User talk:TEVESHSZAT|talk]]) 23:16, 13 December 2020 (CST)
==Controlling Risen==
: Yeah, it's apparently a [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words#Page_names known bug] with MediaWiki. I noticed it when trying to setup that query on Duskruin. As you noted, just hard-linking it (without the "magic word") works just fine, though. There might be another solution, but I haven't delved too deeply into it. -- [[User:TK-421|TK-421]] ([[User talk:TK-421|talk]]) 00:16, 14 December 2020 (CST)
Controlling Risen requires a fetish that is tied to that particular risen. Commands do not cause RT. If you lose your fetish, you lose that Risen. Sorry.


== Template:Critter ==
Risen can in some circumstances break their leash, attacking/killing you when you attempt to awaken them.


Self: go look at Template:Critter. <code><nowiki> [[rare source::false| ]][[rare::false| ]]</nowiki></code> not populating on some location selections, which excludes for Hunting Ladders. What’s up with that? —[[User:TK-421|TK-421]] ([[User talk:TK-421|talk]]) 02:18, 5 April 2021 (CDT)
==Combat Power==
: Self, I figured it out. If the City isn’t populated the Critter template doesn’t populate these two properties. I (unsuccessfully) tried fiddling with the template, but populating a default to set those proved infuriating. And <code>#Ask</code> won’t query for the ''absence'' of a property. Joy. I’ve settled on just putting a disclaimer/note on the Critter Form. For now. —[[User:TK-421|TK-421]] ([[User talk:TK-421|talk]]) 02:14, 6 April 2021 (CDT)
'''Risen are not meant to be direct combatants''' and are quite squishy relative to their creator. Their role in combat is combat-support, using special abilities to debuff or buff the room in various ways. In a pinch, a Risen should be defending itself in combat, but it's not anything to rely on and not remotely a substitute for a zombie.


== Future Namespaces ==
Functionally, the [[Call from Beyond|CFB zombie]] is (and always has been) intended to be your go-to combat companion. Something that's literally hacked to pieces and then stitched together just isn't going to be as sturdy as something that was just killed and raised intact.


Another note to myself: if we ever want to add more custom namespaces [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces here's how]. This will require help from onsite staff, so it's a low priority.


Some possible candidates:
==Creating Risen==
* Event -- For [[Current Events]], both when they're current and when they're not.
To learn how to make Risen, you'll need to visit one of the cold laboratories in a guild. There are cold laboratories in each province, though there is no teacher in P5.
* Discord -- If we ever decide to try and archive tidbits from the official [[discord]]. Similar to how the Post namespace works.
* Article -- Journalism stuff. Articles for the [[FLH]], [[Provincial Dispatch]], or anybody else that's publishing content.


More if I think of more. --[[User:TK-421|TK-421]] ([[User talk:TK-421|talk]]) 19:31, 9 April 2021 (CDT)
Risen are assembled out of body parts. How effective you are at butchery is governed by a hidden skill (similar to Astrology) that you need to work up. (There is some grandfathering for this.)


== Bestiary Lists ==
===Duration===
Risen are effectively immortal, though if they are damaged enough, they have to rest and regenerate for a time before they are usable again. There is also no time limit for having a Risen out (except for the possibility of it getting re-murdered and needed to regen before it can be used again).


Why <s>two</s> three pages?
===How They Can Look===
* [[:Category:Hunting_ladders]]
Risen can look like NPCs, but not PCs.
* [[Bestiary overall creature level]]
* [[Bestiary Level Data]]
I prefer the first. Ask for second opinions. Probably wanna depreciate one and redirect. --[[User:TK-421|TK-421]] ([[User talk:TK-421|talk]]) 01:23, 28 April 2021 (CDT)
: This is corrected. --[[User:TK-421|TK-421]] ([[User talk:TK-421|talk]]) 17:08, 8 May 2021 (CDT)


===Unexpected Results===
Creations can be assembled in various configurations. As an example, it is possible for a Risen to have no head, or multiples heads.
Regarding recent bestiary list and critter template changes, today when I saved changes to [[Silver-backed bear]] a couple unexpected things occurred that I cannot sort out.
*It disappeared from some hunting ladder queries such as the [[:Category:Hunting_ladders#Bestiary_by_Level_Data|Bestiary by Level Data]] table and the [[:Category:Bears#Variations|Bears Variations]] table but it remained on others such as the [[Estimated Ranks hunting ladder]] and [[Zoluren hunting ladder]]. Prior to saving my changes it appeared in all these tables. I did not edit the creature level or ranks fields. A revision comparison showed me nothing that looked like a cause for this.
*The Skill Cap output form field is now blank. The data is present in the edit view but it is blank in the read view.
Please help. I do not want to continue inadvertently breaking things with my data entry efforts. Thank you. --[[User:VMPHNTRD|VMPHNTRD]] ([[User talk:VMPHNTRD|talk]]) 11:47, 2 May 2021 (CDT)
: This isn't anything you did. [[User:TEVESHSZAT|TEVESHSZAT]] made some changes to try and improve functionality for flex creatures, and those changes appear to have broken something else. The rank numbers aren't being set correctly by the Critter Form right now. Hmm. --12:20, 2 May 2021 (CDT)
:: This should be fixed now. Sorry about that! --[[User:TK-421|TK-421]] ([[User talk:TK-421|talk]]) 12:42, 2 May 2021 (CDT)
::: It appears to be so. Thank you. --[[User:VMPHNTRD|VMPHNTRD]] ([[User talk:VMPHNTRD|talk]]) 13:37, 2 May 2021 (CDT)


== Forcing Default Forms ==
===Multiple Risen===
You can make as many Risen as you want, so you can have different ones designed/trained for different tasks. The main costs to making multiple Risen is the time it takes to gather body parts, and the price of the scrolls you use to teach them.


This is kind of a mess. [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Page_Forms/The_%22edit_with_form%22_tab Documentation link]. --[[User:TK-421|TK-421]] ([[User talk:TK-421|talk]]) 16:59, 8 May 2021 (CDT)

==Risen Abilities==
Abilities are taught in the various guildhalls, and each location will (eventually) have a few unique ones.

The idea is there shouldn't be one perfect Risen that has every ability and is perfectly suitable for every situation. Sometimes you want an agent that can blend in, sometimes you want a five-headed spawn from Aldebaran.

There's Humanity-driven abilities that focus on stealth, city interaction, and otherwise being a fairly normal proxy for the Necromancer. Then there are inhumanity (low Humanity) driven abilities that are more magical / combat support.

===Commands===
Commands are activated, per Risen, by purchasing the correct item and feeding it to your creation. There are a limited number of slots per Risen.

{|class="wikitable sortable"
|-
!Commands!!Purpose
|-
|Say||Say a phrase
|-
|Move||Move around
|-
|Look||Look at the surroundings
|-
|Find||Find a person
|-
|Watch||Watch an area
|-
|Attack||Attack a person or creature
|-
|Safeguard||Drag the summoner when they are in trouble
|-
|Bleed||Blood Buffer
|-
|Chorus||The Chorus Discordant. Disrupts natural mana streams.
|-
|Butcher||Assist with butchering
|}

STARE FETISH to see what commands the Risen has learned.

===Quality and Training===
What a Risen can learn how to do will depend heavily on how much humanity it has, how skilled it was when put together, and the quality of the specimens used to make it. You will buy scrolls to teach your Risen different things.

Risen who are trained in stealth can use stealth. Risen can participate in combat, but will pretty much never be as combat worthy as your CFB zombie, and you cannot use both at once (or more than one Risen at once, either).

===Sight and Communication===
Yes, a PC can see and speak through the Risen if you have trained it to do so. However unlike [[familiars]], Risen can be killed (Re-killed? But they get better!).

===Movement===
The Risen can be set to follow you, or you can manually move it around via COMMAND when it's not doing a specific task for you. It will not be able to go into certain areas, and will get twitchy both in town or in safe areas


==Miscellaneous==
===Justice===
Risen can be arrested in town, so be careful.

COMMAND RISEN TO BAIL bails them out of jail. You need to have enough money in your pockets to do so.

===Equipment===
Risen who are designed to do in-town tasks can wear clothing, and hooded cloaks will provide bonuses to them. Combat-trained Risen can make use of weapons.

====Risk of Equipment Loss====
This is similar to CFB zombies; If you're equipping one, don't give a Risen anything you'd be devastated to lose. Specific tasks (like sending your Risen to go repair your stuff) are safe, but equipping them directly has a chance to lead to item loss.

===Chorus Discordant===
* The chorus cannot be used in silenced rooms.
* The ability pulls Risen out of hiding if applicable (this will be relevant soon).
* It is modified by the number of heads the Risen has. It takes a penalty at 0 heads, plus messaging acknowledging that it doesn't have a dang head. More heads produces a bonus based on the number of said heads. So many heads.

===GM NPC Risen===
''Stuff about how various GMNPC Risen have acted or been able to function in the past, and questioning if the Risen players make being (or not being) like those GM-run Risen is a retcon or not:''

Nothing currently being developed for PC-created Risen would be a retcon of the IC understanding of Risen as they've been portrayed in game so far.

Keeping in mind that the particular Risen that PCs have encountered are all in the Very Special Risen category for one reason or another, I wouldn't be banking on any particular thing/ability/talking style/power set/way of functioning of those GMNPCs to necessarily show up the same in the Risen that players can make. These GMNPC Risen have all been repeatedly stated to be abnormal as far as Risen go, with Lyras' Risen generals being at least semi-autonomous and retaining pieces of their living personalities, a certain crafty someone being created how he is in part due to the use of a powerful necromantic artifact, another certain someone also being created with help from that same artifact, and most of the rest being made by Book -- the single most skilled creator of Risen out of all known Necromancers to date.

That said, some of the things GM-run Risen characters have been shown to do (or at least some abilities thematically similar to them) are almost certainly going to show up, if not at release, then as we expand upon Risen ability options.

-Persida

Latest revision as of 16:08, 8 May 2021

Wiki Question - Item Form, Advanced Options Item Type Proper Usage?

Hoping you can help me. What is the proper usage for the Item Type field under Advanced Options in the Item Form? Specifically, do all crafting tools need to have their tool type placed in this field or only ones that have multi-word types like mixing stick? Or, is neither the case? --VMPHNTRD (talk) 18:22, 28 October 2020 (CDT)

I don't personally engage with the crafting system at all, so I'm not quite as familiar with how all the tools are setup. It appears the standard folks have adopted is to have their tool type placed in this field, yes.
  • Item Types can be, and usually are, multi-word. The primary way we use itype is for semantic queries. You can have a bunch of items that do the same basic thing and, when tagged with an Item Type, we can set up dynamic tables (e.g. all the tables on the Regeneration Items page) to find/list them all (even if they don't share a common noun).
  • Not all item lists are setup using Item Types. In your specific example, Mixing stick, that last table — the one that actually shows the variants — is actually using an older query (Template:TSearch) and it's literally looking for items with the "mixing stick" in the tap. So if there's a mixing stick that isn't named with that exact phrase the page won't show it. Item Types are superior, but they require extra effort on our parts to setup.
    —TK-421 (talk) 19:33, 28 October 2020 (CDT)
  • Wow! Now that is a thorough explanation. Thank you! --VMPHNTRD (talk) 19:54, 28 October 2020 (CDT)

prefix index bug?

It looks like Special:PrefixIndex doesn't trigger properly if you use {{FULLPAGENAME}} when there is an apostrophe in the page's name (aka: Akigwe's Legacy: Secrets of the Tower). Entering the name manually into the code vs using {{FULLPAGENAME}} works out fine, though. No major problem, but just so it's on your radar, if that's a thing that can even get resolved. --TEVESHSZAT (talk) 23:16, 13 December 2020 (CST)

Yeah, it's apparently a known bug with MediaWiki. I noticed it when trying to setup that query on Duskruin. As you noted, just hard-linking it (without the "magic word") works just fine, though. There might be another solution, but I haven't delved too deeply into it. -- TK-421 (talk) 00:16, 14 December 2020 (CST)

Template:Critter

Self: go look at Template:Critter. [[rare source::false| ]][[rare::false| ]] not populating on some location selections, which excludes for Hunting Ladders. What’s up with that? —TK-421 (talk) 02:18, 5 April 2021 (CDT)

Self, I figured it out. If the City isn’t populated the Critter template doesn’t populate these two properties. I (unsuccessfully) tried fiddling with the template, but populating a default to set those proved infuriating. And #Ask won’t query for the absence of a property. Joy. I’ve settled on just putting a disclaimer/note on the Critter Form. For now. —TK-421 (talk) 02:14, 6 April 2021 (CDT)

Future Namespaces

Another note to myself: if we ever want to add more custom namespaces here's how. This will require help from onsite staff, so it's a low priority.

Some possible candidates:

  • Event -- For Current Events, both when they're current and when they're not.
  • Discord -- If we ever decide to try and archive tidbits from the official discord. Similar to how the Post namespace works.
  • Article -- Journalism stuff. Articles for the FLH, Provincial Dispatch, or anybody else that's publishing content.

More if I think of more. --TK-421 (talk) 19:31, 9 April 2021 (CDT)

Bestiary Lists

Why two three pages?

I prefer the first. Ask for second opinions. Probably wanna depreciate one and redirect. --TK-421 (talk) 01:23, 28 April 2021 (CDT)

This is corrected. --TK-421 (talk) 17:08, 8 May 2021 (CDT)

Unexpected Results

Regarding recent bestiary list and critter template changes, today when I saved changes to Silver-backed bear a couple unexpected things occurred that I cannot sort out.

  • It disappeared from some hunting ladder queries such as the Bestiary by Level Data table and the Bears Variations table but it remained on others such as the Estimated Ranks hunting ladder and Zoluren hunting ladder. Prior to saving my changes it appeared in all these tables. I did not edit the creature level or ranks fields. A revision comparison showed me nothing that looked like a cause for this.
  • The Skill Cap output form field is now blank. The data is present in the edit view but it is blank in the read view.

Please help. I do not want to continue inadvertently breaking things with my data entry efforts. Thank you. --VMPHNTRD (talk) 11:47, 2 May 2021 (CDT)

This isn't anything you did. TEVESHSZAT made some changes to try and improve functionality for flex creatures, and those changes appear to have broken something else. The rank numbers aren't being set correctly by the Critter Form right now. Hmm. --12:20, 2 May 2021 (CDT)
This should be fixed now. Sorry about that! --TK-421 (talk) 12:42, 2 May 2021 (CDT)
It appears to be so. Thank you. --VMPHNTRD (talk) 13:37, 2 May 2021 (CDT)

Forcing Default Forms

This is kind of a mess. Documentation link. --TK-421 (talk) 16:59, 8 May 2021 (CDT)

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