Talk:Bestiary level list

This page should probably be split up, maybe 1-50/51-100/101-150 level creatures? If you edit it, it warns the file is too long and some folks may have issues editing it.Caraamon 15:29, 5 April 2008 (CDT)

Would it be prudent to add skill caps to this list? Easy to add to being here at the wiki...--Naeya ^(talk) 11:08, 30 November 2007 (CST)

I think it would be an excellent idea. Guaranzo 15:35, 30 November 2007 (CST)

Alrighty then, I added the fields at the right side of the table, so not much change will have to be made to the rest of the entries.--Naeya ^(talk) 16:32, 30 November 2007 (CST)

I went ahead and remove the "levels" from the list as they are confusing. --Naeya ^(talk) 09:50, 2 July 2008 (CDT)

Caps on Creature Articles

Had a request/suggestion from a user to include the caps on the individual critter pages, probably in the Critter at a Glance template. Thoughts?--Naeya ^(talk) 21:02, 17 December 2007 (CST)

I would say no to putting it in At a Glance. A new template (Critter by the Numbers?) that can include more detail about the various aspect numbers (offense, defense, stealth, boxes, skins, etc) might fit more with the look of the specific critter page without cluttering up the other tables. Keep the Level list as a means to ballpark your prey, use the critter articles to figure out why you're getting owned by or owning a critter that should be in your range.--Symphaena 22:16, 17 December 2007 (CST)

Error at bottom of page

Perhaps someone with better eyesight than me could figure out why the template {{Bestiary Level List}} is being called again but not closed at the bottom of the Bestiary Level List page? I'm gonna wait until this is fixed before I finish splitting the list up into separate pages.--Naeya ^(talk) 12:44, 30 July 2008 (CDT)

Listing Alterations

In the upcoming days, I will be converting all of this over to semantic searching, as well as moving the skill cap information to the creature pages themselves. -Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi^(talk) 23:11, 7 October 2008 (CDT)

Creature Areas

Would it be too much to add the location (such as Aesry or Shard or somesuch)? I guess I could go to the pages and see what's around but it still seems slower that way. Tea

The trouble with that is creatures like Goblins that are in multiple locations would play havok with the table. It could be done, but it'll only be slightly better than going to Category pages like Category:Raven's Point Creatures or what ever town you're looking for.
-Glimmereyes 12:03, 12 October 2008 (CDT)

I'll see what I can do, when I'm done with the current project. I have a vague idea of how it could be done. -Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi^(talk) 13:45, 12 October 2008 (CDT)

Cap Suggestion

I suggest we objectively set the caps based on appraised values of say... worthy opponent or something along those lines. Thoughts? -Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi^(talk) 20:31, 13 October 2008 (CDT)

Sounds like a good plan, it'll remove the confusion over whether the numbers are the hard caps or recomendations. I'd add a note at the top mentioning what the numbers are based on so people who prefer to push their limits can take that into account.
-Glimmereyes 21:53, 13 October 2008 (CDT)

Skinning

It would be really useful to include the skinnable field in this table as well, and it's a one-line edit. Is there some reason why this isn't the case? If not, I'll go ahead and put it in. --Pigeon 09:11, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Backstab/Stealth Caps

I would like to start adding the stealth caps alongside weapon, as it is much different.

For example: at 97 BS I learn a little from Blood Wolves, but absolutely none from Young Ogres. The Ogres have a higher weapon cap, but obviously a much lower stealth cap (i.e. horrible perception) --Tea

CAPS should definitely be changed to sub-category caps.

Take for instance the ghoul caps listed here.

I've been fighting them for a few days now and found this to be the case:

Ghouls in Crossing teach weapons and armor to 52 good, 53 slow, teach to 54 dabbling, and 55 capped. 4 Ghouls at once on you teaches multi opponent to 60 good, to 62 dabbling, and 63 capped. Skinning ghouls teaches to 40 good, 41 dabbling, 42 capped. Boxes gained from ghouls teaches to 30 very good, 36 slow, 38 dabbling, unknown cap.

All of these are vastly different than the currently stated cap which is 26 to 44. Not a single skill is even close to their listed 26 min cap, and only skinning is close to the so-called max cap.

My suggestion would be to change the code from showing a caps list to having each skilled given its own caps and then on the main list page have a search by skill option which defaults to the weapon cap but can be changed to any of the caps (weap, armor, hide, sneak, disarm, lock, multi opp, parry, TM, skin). That way people could display the monster list based off of caps in whichever skill they wish to train.

After that people will need to take the time to give each of these monsters exact caps of course for each skill before it could be complete again, but at least that way the monster caps wouldn't be completely wrong.

Seeking Clarification on Min, Max Caps

My question(s) are based on the fact I never really ever saw an explanation on these caps, in the 10+ years I've been in and out of the realms. I've always gone on assumption and would like some clarification of this.

Using forest geni as an example: Geni have a min cap of 230 and a max cap of 325. I've always assumed that 1) the min cap suggested the lowest required rank in weapons/combats needed to hunt the critter, and 2) the max cap suggested when the critter no longer teaches. Also, I've always assumed that the tighter these two caps are, generally, the faster you begin to learn less and the harder it is to lock skills.

Hunting geni, I notice that with weapons at 250 ranks (20 ranks past the minimum cap) I can still lock weapons if I push hard(er) and spend much more time in their hunting ground. When I first began hunting geni I locked in minutes, easily. Now, it can take 20 minutes to a half hour, sometimes more. I've been considering moving on, but wanted to be sure I'm on the right track understanding these caps.

Micaiah 15:01, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

They are approximate numbers of two things:

1. At what sort of ranks, both offensive and defensive can a hunter reasonably begin hunting them?
2. When is it no longer worth the effort to continue hunting them?

By it's very nature and the vary boosts and combat capabilies of a given guild at a given skill level, these are opinions and I know of no decent way to make them otherwise without removing their information content completely. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 19:50, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't ever recommend removing these. Just wanted some clarification. Thanks. Micaiah 20:22, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Table Too Big

I'm assuming this table isn't generated by using some sort of database, but instead is just edited/added to over time? It's too big, and the data you need to know about critters are only indicated at the top. If you're half way or more up the food chain it's getting to be a pain to scroll ALL the way back to the top to see what the individual boxes of data are, like what carries coin, boxes.. all you see is true or false and after a time without the occasional reminder in the table it's a blur. I don't know if it's an easy fix or not. -Kaeko 21:10, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Actually it is generated via database, which leaves us without a very convenient way to do what you ask. I'll think about it and see what I can come up with. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 21:38, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Does it use SQL/MySQL? Having worked with those databases, I'd say it would be a relatively easy fix.

Nope. It uses a semantic search function. Short of chopping it up into 10 or 20 shorter searches, I can't think of a way to do it. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 03:39, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

cleaning up the cap ranges

Wondering what others think of this:

I've always thought of the level list as an approximation of: "What can I safely hunt without getting murdered, while still learning decently?" In that vein, I think that the skill ranges should be rounded up or down, rather than having the exact ranks at which they may cap. That information can be listed under the critter page, rather than here?

Also, for invasion creatures, I don't find it helpful to have that information listed here, mixed in with all the other critters. (See above criteria. Invasion creatures aren't for hunting). Many of the invasion creatures are likely to never return, and I think it can be confusing to someone who isn't that familiar with the game. Is it possible to sort those out, or maybe have a separate page for them?

Thanks--Luckysevens 17:17, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

The problem is that that criteria varies for people depending on guild, buffs, stats, etc. I don't disagree with you, but I don't necessarily think it's an easy number to come up with.

As for the invasion stuff, it's a dynamically generated list, so I can investigate a way to filter out invasion stuff. I've got a bit more things I have to do, but I'll put it on my list of tasks. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 00:05, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Skill Caps

It seems that creatures stop training offensive skills at a different cap than at which they stop training defensive skills. I'm noticing, for example, that bucca seem to stop training my defensives around 65, but my offensives seem to hit about 90 before not training. Are there two stats on creatures? Or maybe more, if skinning and other skills stop at different caps? GEM6ICE (talk) 18:02, 20 March 2015 (CDT)