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Combat is undergoing a large overhaul in the near future. This page will attempt to maintain the current plans for the update.
Combat is undergoing a large overhaul in the near future. This page will attempt to maintain the current plans for the update.


==Active Defenses==
==Defenses Changes==
Evasion, parry, and shield will combine to form a first line of defense. They will be equal partners, and any 180% stance variation will be equally effective, all other considerations being equal. Evasion will not longer have a disproportionate strength compared to others.
(The "To Hit" Phase of Combat)


In place of the Multi-Opponent skill, instead becoming a check of attacker's Tactics skill vs. the defenders Defending skill. In general, fighting two creatures at once will drastically increase the difficulty of combat, and is no longer needed for efficient training.
Evasion, parry, and shield will combine to form a first line of defense. They will be equal partners, and any 180% stance variation will be equally effective, all other considerations being equal.


The number of stance points available depends on the user's Defense skill, with an extra point every 50, 60, or 70 ranks, for Armor Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary, respectively.
All defenses will be applied to all attacks, though if a defense would normally not apply, such as parry vs. an arrow, it will receive a penalty of somewhere around 40% (exact number is subject to change). This represents an intelligent combatant ignoring ineffective defenses and concentrating on the effective ones.<ref>[[Post:Please_fix_LX_-_9/3/2010_-_4:37:04]]</ref>


Using a twohanded weapon with a shield will hinder both the attack and shield defense. <!-- Supposedly equal to the shield's hindrance, but needs to be confirmed. -->
<!-- All defenses will be applied to all attacks, though if a defense would normally not apply, such as parry vs. an arrow, it will receive a penalty of somewhere around 40% (exact number is subject to change). This represents an intelligent combatant ignoring ineffective defenses and concentrating on the effective ones. (needs to be checked, missing from provided documentation) -->
===Armor===
===Armor===
Armor skill is now used as a passive defensive vs. the attacker's offense, with a progressive reduction in armor protection as the attacker's offense exceeds the defender's skill.
Armor skill modified by the appropriate armor protection stats will replace parry and shield as the second line of defense. Armor skill will work in a manner similar to how parry/shield do now -- as a second line of defense if the first line fails, but before a hit or miss is determined and damage computed.<ref>[[Post:Combat 3.0 Overview - 7/14/2010 - 22:28:18]]</ref>


Armor hindrance minimums are determined by skillset placement.
Several armor skills will be combining. See [[Experience 3.0]] for details.


Several armor skills will be combining. See [[Skills 3.0]] for details.
===Parry===
Currently, weapon skill plays nearly as much importance as the parry skill does in defending. This is going to change, with parry taking a much large role in the contest. In addition, suitability will become more important in parry, as well.<ref>[[Post:Parrying - 12/8/2009 - 14:59:09]]</ref>


===Shields===
===Shields===
Shields now have varying effectiveness against certain types of attacks.
Shields will have their hindrance penalty applied to the shield usage skill, rather than the current situation where evasion is penality.<ref>[[Post:Odd thing I am noticing... - 8/2/2009 - 15:05:19]]</ref>
: Small: Good against melee, bad against ranged
: Medium: Moderately good against both
: Large: Good against ranged, poor against melee


In addition, the cap on arm-worn shields has been removed, and instead replaced with a flat 25% reduction to shields stats.
There will be some form of penalty when trying to use arm-worn shields and two-handed weapons, with ranged two-handed weapons having the worst penalty. Whether this penalty will be to the weapon, to the shield, or both, is not known.<ref>[[Post:Please fix LX - 9/3/2010 - 4:37:04]]</ref>


Rangers, Paladins, and Barbarians automatically ignore any extra RT from using an armworn shield with a bow.
==Damage and Passive Defenses==
(The Damage Phase of Combat)


===Multiple Opponents===
As mentioned in the previous section, armor protection is moving to the Active Defense side of combat. Armor absorption will remain essentially unchanged. The importance of "Stamina Reduction" will be increasing dramatically as a damage reducer -- not necessarily to vitality itself, but to the body parts struck. This should go a long ways towards reducing the frequency of one-hit deaths.
The minimal multiple opponent penalty is achieved when the Defending skill is roughly equal to the defenses needed.


The further Defending is from this parity, the more severe the penalty.
Damage will still be made up of the same factors as it is now, but the relative importance will be shifting. Instead of being the primary direct modifier, how much of the attack gets past defenses will instead primarily be determining the variance of the random factors (although it will also directly impact damage as well, but to a much lower degree than now). In other words, the more accurate the attack (the more skill that gets past defense), the closer the damage will be to its maximum potential and the less random the results will be. Strength and suitability to strength will be seeing an increase in importance, as will the weapon stats themselves.


===Damage===
Key points: Determining whether or not an attack hits and the resulting damage will be more independent than they are now. The former will still impact the latter, but they will be less interdependent than they are now. This allows us to keep damage in a range that isn't going to escalate into insta-death at higher levels, and also allows for more flexibility in things that increase the chance to hit or the resulting damage without necessarily impacting both.<ref>[[Post:Combat 3.0 Overview - 7/14/2010 - 22:28:18]]</ref>
Even though you are hit more often, physical damage does not start happening to your character until you lose 10% of your total vitality.


===Stuns===
==Offense Changes==
To-hit and damage have been divorced, removing long-standing problems with one hit kills. While better hits does contribute somewhat to damage, it no longer scales far out of proportion.
Stuns will be less frequent in general, although certain attack types (slam, pummel) will have an increased chance to stun among their pros. In addition, a "new" (old, but invisible) weapon stat (Force of Impact) will be used in conjunction with strength and suitability as the primary determining factor for the chance of stunning. In other words, weapons that are traditionally inaccurate and poor at parrying may very well have a higher chance to stun (although this is highly weapon dependent).


To hit rolls are bonused by agility and weapon balance, while damage is bonused by strength and weapon suitability.
In addition, we will be introducing some immunity timers to stun and similar effects. These timers will be fairly brief, but they will prevent a target from being perpetually locked down by stuns. If a new stun occurs while another is active, the overall duration of the old may be increased to match the new if the new is longer, but otherwise no stacking will occur. Example: A rat is stunned for 5 seconds. With 2 seconds remaining, it is stunned again for 6 seconds. Because 6 seconds is one second longer than the original 5, that 1 second is tacked on to the remaining 2 seconds. So it may be possible to increase stun lengths a bit, but once that stun runs out, a new one cannot occur until the immunity timer expires.<ref>[[Post:Combat 3.0 Overview - 7/14/2010 - 22:28:18]]</ref>


In addition, all attacks have a small chance to both miss and hit, regardless of any difference in skill between the attacker and defender.
===Vitality===
Due to technical limitations preventing an increase to the amount of damage body parts can take, instead, the amount of vitality left will act as a modifier to the maximum amount of damage a body part can take in a single blow. This is hoped to remove the vast majority of unexpected deaths for at skill opponents.


===Maneuvers and Attacks===
This will make things that prevent or slow vitality recovery more useful, such as arrows or bleeding wounds.<ref>[[Post:The likely future of our guild, please work on these. - 12/15/2009 - 16:50:01]]</ref>
Combo chains have been removed. Instead, every maneuver has benefits and penalties, which can include roundtime, defensive effects, balance changes, etc.


A full list of available maneuvers and their impacts can be found [[Combat_Maneuvers|here]]. You can now use {{tt|MANEUVER HELP FULL}} to get all of the details of that maneuver.
==Attacking==
===Attack Combos===


Maneuver penalties no longer last until a new maneuver is performed, but instead fade after a few seconds, after which it will revert to the last defensive maneuver (DODGE, PARRY, BLOCK).
Combos are going away, at least in the form of a specific chain of attacks that is required to maintain perfect balance.


Generally, balance will be gained by using the less damaging maneuvers, such as JAB, and the more damaging ones will reduce balance. Additionally, there is a new balance level - 'adeptly balanced' now lies between 'nimbly balanced' and 'incredibly balanced'.
Instead, each of our 35+ combat verbs (yes, we have that many, although some were never completed enough to release) will have distinct benefits and drawbacks. Some will be as simple as just exchanging some defense and/or balance for added accuracy and/or damage (Lunge). Others will be more complex, with special features such as limited area effect (sweep), increased chance to stun (slam), or potential knockdown (slam or shove). Of course, there will always be drawbacks to offset advantages, so attacks should be chosen wisely!


Brawling manuevers have been split up. The BOB, WEAVE, and CIRCLE maneuvers now use and train the Tactics skill, rather than the Brawling skill. BOB bonuses your balance and fatigue on a successful usage, WEAVE penalizes the enemy's defense, and CIRCLE penalizes the enemy's balance.
In addition, some attacks will be less (or non) offensive (feint, circle, etc), and instead focus more on modifying the nature of the fight. A new Tactics skill is on the table that will focus primarily on moves that reduce the effectiveness of your enemy or (in a few cases) increase your own.<ref>[[Post:Combat 3.0 Overview - 7/14/2010 - 22:28:18]]</ref>


===Combat Balance===
===Maneuver Chart===
KEY:
:'''+''': good for this
:'''=''': won't help, won't hurt
:'''-''': bad for this


'''NOTE:''' {{com|attack}} will perform a randomized maneuver that is appropriate to the given situation.
There will be two primary factors in gaining or losing balance -- attack type and attack frequency. Light, controlled attacks (jab) may result in an increase in balance. Massive strikes that involve putting your whole body into the attack my result in a loss of balance. Attacks between these extremes may either lower or increase balance, depending on how much of a hurry the attacker is to move on to the next.<ref>[[Post:Combat 3.0 Overview - 7/14/2010 - 22:28:18]]</ref>


===Last Attack Modifiers===
====Weapon====
{|class="wikitable sortable"
|-
!move||fatigue||balance||speed||accurate||puncture||slice||impact||evasion||parry||shield
|-
|bash ||-||-||-||+||-||=||+||=||-||+
|-
|chop ||=||=||-||+||-||+||=||=||=||=
|-
|draw ||=||-||+||-||-||+||-||+||-||=
|-
|feint ||-||+||+||-||=||=||=||-||+||=
|-
|jab ||-||+||+||-||=||=||=||-||+||-
|-
|lunge ||-||-||-||+||-||+||=||-||+||-
|-
|pummel ||-||=||+||-||=||-||+||=||=||-
|-
|slam ||=||=||+||=||=||=||=||=||=||=
|-
|slice ||-||=||+||=||-||+||=||-||+||-
|-
|smite* || || || || || || || || || ||
|-
|sweep ||-||-||-||-||-||+||=||+||-||-
|-
|swing ||-||+||+||=||-||=||+||+||-||+
|-
|throw* || || || || || || || || || ||
|-
|thrust ||-||=||+||=||+||-||=||-||+||=
|}


====Brawling====
As mentioned in the Combos section, each combat move will have pros and cons. Among these are the same defense modifiers we have now (although the exact numbers may well change). Under the new system, however, all combat move modifiers will be temporary, lasting from anywhere from 3-10 seconds depending on the attack. After that, your "last attack" setting will revert to your most recent defensive move -- ie parry, dodge, or block.<ref>[[Post:Combat 3.0 Overview - 7/14/2010 - 22:28:18]]</ref>
{|class="wikitable sortable"
|-
!move||fatigue||balance||speed||accurate||puncture||slice||impact||evasion||parry||shield
|-
|bite ||-||-||+||=||+||=||-||-||+||+
|-
|butt ||-||-||+||+||=||-||+||-||=||+
|-
|choke* || || || || || || || || || ||
|-
|claw ||-||=||+||=||=||+||-||+||-||-
|-
|elbow ||-||=||+||=||=||-||+||+||-||-
|-
|gouge ||-||=||+||=||-||+||=||+||-||-
|-
|grab* || || || || || || || || || ||
|-
|grapple ||-||-||+||+||=||=||=||=||=||=
|-
|kick ||-||-||+||=||=||-||+||=||=||-
|-
|knee ||-||-||+||=||=||-||+||-||=||+
|-
|punch ||-||=||+||=||=||-||+||=||=||=
|-
|shove ||-||-||+||+||=||=||=||+||-||-
|-
|slap* || || || || || || || || || ||
|-
|tackle ||+||=||+||-||=||=||=||=||=||=
|}


===Combat Messaging===
====Tactical====
{|class="wikitable sortable"
New messaging toggles are being added to more finely control combat messaging output. For example, players will be able to toggle missed attacks on and off, not only for themselves but for enemies, for other players, and specifically for groupmates. They will be able to do the same for hits, and for stuns/immobilizes/knockdowns. In other words, it will be possible to set things up so that you only see when your enemies or your groupmates are hit, or only when enemies are hit and groupmates are stunned, or any of several other combinations. This should hopefully make group combat and invasions much more friendly.<ref>[[Post:Combat 3.0 Overview - 7/14/2010 - 22:28:18]]</ref>
|-
!move||fatigue||balance||speed||accurate||puncture||slice||impact||evasion||parry||shield
|-
|block* || || || || || || || || || ||
|-
|bob ||-||-||+||=||=||=||=||+||-||-
|-
|circle ||-||=||+||=||=||=||=||=||=||=
|-
|dodge ||+||=||+||x||x||x||x||+||-||-
|-
|flee* || || || || || || || || || ||
|-
|parry ||+||=||+||x||x||x||x||-||+||-
|-
|retreat*|| || || || || || || || || ||
|-
|shove ||-||-||+||+||=||=||=||+||-||-
|-
|tackle ||+||=||+||-||=||=||=||=||=||=
|-
|weave ||-||-||+||=||=||=||=||+||-||-
|}

<nowiki>* Currently unable to view stats for moves</nowiki>

===Ranged===
Base damage is the ammo's appraise. The ranged weapon used modifies this based on its Power and the class of weapon it is. This is a rough comparison of weapon class:

Thrown < Sling < Staff Sling < Shortbow < Longbow < Comp Bow < Light Crossbow < Heavy Crossbow < Arbalest

Essentially, the shorter the RT the lower the base damage adjustment, but it is not shown in the weapon's appraise. Snap shots give no damage bonus, and fully aimed gives a moderate damage bonus.

===Retreating===
Endless retreating will now come with a cost. Multiple retreats will begin inflicting a penalty to ranged attacks, though it will fade over time. {{com|assess}} will display the level of penalty from this source.

In addition, after making a ranged attack or casting an offensive spell, the attacker cannot leave the area for a period of time, approximately 4 seconds after the attack's RT is up.

==Combat Speed==
It is intended that combat speed is reduced, aiming for it taking approximately four times longer to kill a creature compared to the previous system. Most maneuver RTs have been increased by a second and higher stats are required for RT reduction.

Both players and creatures have had their health significantly increased, making one hit kills nearly impossible. In addition, it is expected that players will take hits more often but for far less damage, as wounds are reduced at the higher levels of vitality. The reducing is reduced the lower vitality falls.

Fatigue will be a lot more dynamic in the new system, making both strength and stamina much more valuable than previously.


==Stealth==
==Stealth==
Stealth has not been changed in 3.0, though future changes have not been ruled out.
While hidden, there will be a significant penalty to the stealther's defenses.<ref>[[Post:Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List - 9/28/2010 - 22:39:27]]</ref>

==Experience==
Experience will be awarded primarily based on the difficulty of the action, meaning that the best trainers are creatures that can barely be hit and that barely miss. It should be noted that the comparison is based on raw ranks, so artificially handicaping an attack or defense will not grant greater experience. In addition, missing the target will still grant some experience. Higher damage will still grant more experience, but it will no longer be the major determinator of experience.

Due to an extraordinary amount of rebalancing and bug fixing, many creatures are slightly easier than they used to be. This means that these creatures will stop teaching experience sooner, so you may need to find a new, harder creature to hunt.

Thus, it will be beneficial to hunt creatures that can injure you, as the vitality reduction to wounds will allow survival in situations that previously were not possible.


==Magic==
==Miscellaneous==
It is now possible to {{com|APPRAISE}} ''<equipment>'' {{tt|ON}} ''<creature>'' to appraise the weapons or armor of any creature, including a guardian spirit.
The use of magic in combat is changing. Some spells will actively be more difficult/time consuming to use while in combat.<ref>[[Buff's vs Debuffs - 12/19/2009 - 13:22:53]]</ref>


==FAQ==
See [[Magic 3.0]] for further details.
* '''Q: Will I have to change what I'm hunting?'''
: A: Maybe. Previous changes to combat dropped people down the hunting ladder, but we tried to avoid that here. However, since the underlying mechanics of combat have changed so much, you may find yourself being over- (or under-) whelmed by your current "foe of choice." Because combat will take longer, you should notice if things are going poorly for you well before you get killed. Additionally, since skill gain will now be more more based on challenge, you may find that critters which taught you while hitting you don’t teach as well.


{{RefAl|r=y}}
{{RefAl|r=y}}

Latest revision as of 15:58, 7 July 2013

Caution.png This shop article duplicates information

This article duplicates significant amounts of info contained in the article Combat. Please merge those sections under the more appropriate article name and remove {{Merge}}.

Combat is undergoing a large overhaul in the near future. This page will attempt to maintain the current plans for the update.

Defenses Changes

Evasion, parry, and shield will combine to form a first line of defense. They will be equal partners, and any 180% stance variation will be equally effective, all other considerations being equal. Evasion will not longer have a disproportionate strength compared to others.

In place of the Multi-Opponent skill, instead becoming a check of attacker's Tactics skill vs. the defenders Defending skill. In general, fighting two creatures at once will drastically increase the difficulty of combat, and is no longer needed for efficient training.

The number of stance points available depends on the user's Defense skill, with an extra point every 50, 60, or 70 ranks, for Armor Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary, respectively.

Using a twohanded weapon with a shield will hinder both the attack and shield defense.

Armor

Armor skill is now used as a passive defensive vs. the attacker's offense, with a progressive reduction in armor protection as the attacker's offense exceeds the defender's skill.

Armor hindrance minimums are determined by skillset placement.

Several armor skills will be combining. See Skills 3.0 for details.

Shields

Shields now have varying effectiveness against certain types of attacks.

Small: Good against melee, bad against ranged
Medium: Moderately good against both
Large: Good against ranged, poor against melee

In addition, the cap on arm-worn shields has been removed, and instead replaced with a flat 25% reduction to shields stats.

Rangers, Paladins, and Barbarians automatically ignore any extra RT from using an armworn shield with a bow.

Multiple Opponents

The minimal multiple opponent penalty is achieved when the Defending skill is roughly equal to the defenses needed.

The further Defending is from this parity, the more severe the penalty.

Damage

Even though you are hit more often, physical damage does not start happening to your character until you lose 10% of your total vitality.

Offense Changes

To-hit and damage have been divorced, removing long-standing problems with one hit kills. While better hits does contribute somewhat to damage, it no longer scales far out of proportion.

To hit rolls are bonused by agility and weapon balance, while damage is bonused by strength and weapon suitability.

In addition, all attacks have a small chance to both miss and hit, regardless of any difference in skill between the attacker and defender.

Maneuvers and Attacks

Combo chains have been removed. Instead, every maneuver has benefits and penalties, which can include roundtime, defensive effects, balance changes, etc.

A full list of available maneuvers and their impacts can be found here. You can now use MANEUVER HELP FULL to get all of the details of that maneuver.

Maneuver penalties no longer last until a new maneuver is performed, but instead fade after a few seconds, after which it will revert to the last defensive maneuver (DODGE, PARRY, BLOCK).

Generally, balance will be gained by using the less damaging maneuvers, such as JAB, and the more damaging ones will reduce balance. Additionally, there is a new balance level - 'adeptly balanced' now lies between 'nimbly balanced' and 'incredibly balanced'.

Brawling manuevers have been split up. The BOB, WEAVE, and CIRCLE maneuvers now use and train the Tactics skill, rather than the Brawling skill. BOB bonuses your balance and fatigue on a successful usage, WEAVE penalizes the enemy's defense, and CIRCLE penalizes the enemy's balance.

Maneuver Chart

KEY:

+: good for this
=: won't help, won't hurt
-: bad for this

NOTE: ATTACK will perform a randomized maneuver that is appropriate to the given situation.

Weapon

move fatigue balance speed accurate puncture slice impact evasion parry shield
bash - - - + - = + = - +
chop = = - + - + = = = =
draw = - + - - + - + - =
feint - + + - = = = - + =
jab - + + - = = = - + -
lunge - - - + - + = - + -
pummel - = + - = - + = = -
slam = = + = = = = = = =
slice - = + = - + = - + -
smite*
sweep - - - - - + = + - -
swing - + + = - = + + - +
throw*
thrust - = + = + - = - + =

Brawling

move fatigue balance speed accurate puncture slice impact evasion parry shield
bite - - + = + = - - + +
butt - - + + = - + - = +
choke*
claw - = + = = + - + - -
elbow - = + = = - + + - -
gouge - = + = - + = + - -
grab*
grapple - - + + = = = = = =
kick - - + = = - + = = -
knee - - + = = - + - = +
punch - = + = = - + = = =
shove - - + + = = = + - -
slap*
tackle + = + - = = = = = =

Tactical

move fatigue balance speed accurate puncture slice impact evasion parry shield
block*
bob - - + = = = = + - -
circle - = + = = = = = = =
dodge + = + x x x x + - -
flee*
parry + = + x x x x - + -
retreat*
shove - - + + = = = + - -
tackle + = + - = = = = = =
weave - - + = = = = + - -

* Currently unable to view stats for moves

Ranged

Base damage is the ammo's appraise. The ranged weapon used modifies this based on its Power and the class of weapon it is. This is a rough comparison of weapon class:

Thrown < Sling < Staff Sling < Shortbow < Longbow < Comp Bow < Light Crossbow < Heavy Crossbow < Arbalest

Essentially, the shorter the RT the lower the base damage adjustment, but it is not shown in the weapon's appraise. Snap shots give no damage bonus, and fully aimed gives a moderate damage bonus.

Retreating

Endless retreating will now come with a cost. Multiple retreats will begin inflicting a penalty to ranged attacks, though it will fade over time. ASSESS will display the level of penalty from this source.

In addition, after making a ranged attack or casting an offensive spell, the attacker cannot leave the area for a period of time, approximately 4 seconds after the attack's RT is up.

Combat Speed

It is intended that combat speed is reduced, aiming for it taking approximately four times longer to kill a creature compared to the previous system. Most maneuver RTs have been increased by a second and higher stats are required for RT reduction.

Both players and creatures have had their health significantly increased, making one hit kills nearly impossible. In addition, it is expected that players will take hits more often but for far less damage, as wounds are reduced at the higher levels of vitality. The reducing is reduced the lower vitality falls.

Fatigue will be a lot more dynamic in the new system, making both strength and stamina much more valuable than previously.

Stealth

Stealth has not been changed in 3.0, though future changes have not been ruled out.

Experience

Experience will be awarded primarily based on the difficulty of the action, meaning that the best trainers are creatures that can barely be hit and that barely miss. It should be noted that the comparison is based on raw ranks, so artificially handicaping an attack or defense will not grant greater experience. In addition, missing the target will still grant some experience. Higher damage will still grant more experience, but it will no longer be the major determinator of experience.

Due to an extraordinary amount of rebalancing and bug fixing, many creatures are slightly easier than they used to be. This means that these creatures will stop teaching experience sooner, so you may need to find a new, harder creature to hunt.

Thus, it will be beneficial to hunt creatures that can injure you, as the vitality reduction to wounds will allow survival in situations that previously were not possible.

Miscellaneous

It is now possible to APPRAISE <equipment> ON <creature> to appraise the weapons or armor of any creature, including a guardian spirit.

FAQ

  • Q: Will I have to change what I'm hunting?
A: Maybe. Previous changes to combat dropped people down the hunting ladder, but we tried to avoid that here. However, since the underlying mechanics of combat have changed so much, you may find yourself being over- (or under-) whelmed by your current "foe of choice." Because combat will take longer, you should notice if things are going poorly for you well before you get killed. Additionally, since skill gain will now be more more based on challenge, you may find that critters which taught you while hitting you don’t teach as well.

References

Related Forum Posts

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