Post:Thief OOC Meeting Log from 06122013 (all names changed to protect the innocent) - 06/13/2013 - 15:38
| Re: Thief OOC Meeting Log from 06122013 (all names changed to protect the innocent) · on 06/13/2013 03:38 PM CDT | 2087 | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
All references to what the charts actually say has been removed, see my other thread in this folder regarding AMBUSH/KHRI CHARTS. Edit Number 4: Just some formatting this time. Hope I'm not making the forum mods too mad yet. I really need an edit button. Ricinus says, "So just curious before we begin, what sort of reservations do you folks have about Thieves joining the 3.0 thing." A says, "I'm terrified." A chuckles. DD asks, "Can we vote on it?" P says, "I'd like to quickly throw out the slip stand, slip lay, slip kneel, and any other body position movements, also slip search..." DD grins. A says, "I've had to readjust already, doing it again scares me even more." AA says, "Im a little worried about what will become of Khri, to be honest." S says, "I worry about our khri's being underpowered once we swap." M just wandered through a large stone archway leading to the seating area. X says, "I hate magic. It gives me a headache. I'm also scared about what I'm getting grandfathered to." AA nods. Y says, "Not being able to teach magic is a b, frnakly." A nods to S. BB says, "I figure we'll be barbs for the first year or two." AA says, "I dont want to learn spells man." AA says, "Please dont make me use magic." W says, "Personally love 3.0 and look forward to it." P says, "I think we are sourly out of date, and out of touch, so we might as well start to get updated." W nods in agreement. A says, "I don't want to have to raise and lower my khri to train a skill." I smirks. S says, "I am looking forward to the easy TDPs." Y says, "I'm not too keen on 3.0 for this character, still down a whole lot of TDPs." Y says, "My mages were more than happy though." R says, "I have to agree with S and BB." BB says, "Finally have decent stats to play with all the folks who've been sucking up magic ranks for 15 years." P says, "The GMs got another referencement." I grins at S. Ricinus says, "Yeah, TDP issues is one of the main reasons I wanted to push ahead with getting you folks to 3.0." P says, "Err reinforcement." R says, "Looking forward to the benfits it will give us in the long run." AA says, "I am curious if we did switch to a magic system..what types of spells are we talking here." V waves to W. S asks, "We'll still be out on TDPs from the other half of the magic skillset though, any plans to address that?" AA says, "Or am I just hearing crazy rumors from the mill." R says, "Wouldn't be spells." Ricinus says, "And a lot of your other concerns are things I've considered a bit when designing some of the framework for abilities." AA says, "Good." R says, "Just khri powered by magic skills." W says, "I just pray Khri's teach persistantly while they are up." BB asks, "Are we going to stay to the khri framework?" Ricinus says, "Yeah, no plans for spells." A says, "I don't want my Khri to teach anything." I nods. AA says, "Honestly, I like khri just the way it is." BB says, "Loyal to the framework that is." A says, "I've spent a long time earning them." I nods at AA, obviously agreeing with his views. Ricinus says, "And yeah, I've got a ton of info on a possible khri solution here with me today." AA says, "I dont see it needing "fixing." M observes Ricinus with fascination. S asks, "I imagine our khri system will be similar to Barbs?" BB says, "No way, khri need fixing." Y says, "And i'm wondering on the grandfathering part." DD says, "Well let's hear it." DD leans down and shakes Ricinus's shoulders! R says, "It's not fixing, so much as being updated to the rest of the game." U says, "I also hope they get updated." Ricinus says, "Sorta, but I think I've added some perks to it that will help overcome the training gap from grandfathering." I asks, "Didn't they just 'fix' khris?" AA says, "I mean just speaking frank, we already took a backstab hit with crits being taken out." Cadice says, "The perks are awesome. I am excited." BB smirks at I. Y nods to AA. R says, "5 years ago." R nods to I. F just wandered through a large stone archway leading to the seating area. Ricinus says, "Ok, we'll get started in a few minutes." Ricinus says, "Please take this moment to yell out something crazy to release any possible frustrations." Ricinus says, "Ok, that's much better." Ricinus says, "I appreciate you all showing up here today." Ricinus says, "Lots to talk about." Ricinus says, "This part will go nice and quick since I already typed it all out." Ricinus says, "Before we start with the 3.0 discussion, there are a few things to mention not related to 3.0." Ricinus says, "First, I've made some changes to Ambush Slash to eliminate a few issues that were causing it to overperform." Ricinus says, "Most notably, the stun duration of the ability is now determined by your offense vs defense success score, and is now capped at both ends by the standard crowd control durations that most all abilities already use. This also means that it is subject to stunlock prevention." Ricinus says, "The damage it deals has also been changed, instead of handling its own damage production, it lets the core special attack stuff handle it, which means things like vitality mitigation." Ricinus says, "Next - the new ambush..." Ricinus says, "Ambush slash changes aren't quite live yet, but will be a bit later." Ricinus says, "Is live. Enjoy. Your enemies will hate me. It's a bit more suited to PvP and boss encounters, and not so useful for day to day hunting, but you folks have a fair range of general use stuff already so I don't mind." Ricinus says, "Ok, now on to the meat and potatoes of what we're here for." Ricinus says, "As most of you know already, Magic 3.0 introduced a new way to handle spell abilities both in how they perform and how they're classified." Ricinus says, "Barbarians were also brought into the fold during the original 3.0 conversion, Thieves were not because their stuff wasn't going to break very badly if they were brought in later." Ricinus says, "It's now later, so I've been putting together plans for how Thief 3.0 is going to look." Ricinus says, "As of right now, this is all just "A plan". It is not necissarly "The plan", and even the proposal that is circulating among staff members hasn't been fully approved, though it has also not generated any major concern so far." Ricinus says, "Even if the plan I have set up is approved, it is widely understood that it is intended to be a loose framework on which numerous changes are likely to happen." Ricinus says, "So if you don't initially like what you hear tonight, don't think it's the end of the world, or the ruination of the Thieves Guild. Tell me why you don't like it, and I'll be happy to see if we can find something that works better that is still within certain boundaries." Ricinus says, "So, here's a few of those boundaries." Ricinus says, "First, Thieves need to be able to train Inner Magic, Augmentation, Utility, and Debilitation skills." Ricinus says, "You'll notice there is no Warding skill listed. Barbarians don't have Utility, Thieves don't have Warding. This may sound rough at first, but when you look at the range of abilities, I think you'll see this is highly workable." Ricinus says, "Next, abilities can't buff something that another ability already buffs." Ricinus says, "Right now there are certain khri that boosts a skill by a larger amount, then another khri adds a smaller amount of that same thing." Ricinus says, "In 3.0 a khri that boosts a skill will be the only boost in your ability set that boosts that skill, and the range will generally be the same as having the boost from both abilities in 2.0." Ricinus says, "Of the khri that behave like that I've done the math on, the 3.0 version has had a higher high end buff than the combination of the two abilities in 2.0." Ricinus says, "Finally we need to be able to train Augmentation, Utility, and Debilitation from 0 to 1500 ranks with the abilities. And there needs to be an increase in how a player performs using their abilities for most of that range." Ricinus says, "Ok, so lets move on to a couple of the more negotiable ideas for 3.0." Ricinus says, "These are things I've proposed to help Thieves get over some of the hurdles I expect from following the above mentioned rules." Ricinus says, "First, since khri need be more effective through a longer range of skills I would like to set up a varied method for starting your khris." Ricinus says, "Each khri would have a base difficulty, which would contest a mixture of Inner Magic and the appropriate subskill. If you were to start the khri as you are used to, instantly, you would be doing so contested by that difficulty." Ricinus says, "There will be two ways to reduce that difficulty, and by reducing the difficulty increase the potency of the ability." Ricinus says, "The first is by sitting/kneeling/prone. This method reduces the minimum difficulty of the ability." Ricinus says, "The second method is by introducing a delay in the ability's activation. You would attempt to start the ability, then 10-20 seconds later it would take effect. This would not be a RT action, but there may be restrictions on what sorts of activites would break your concentration. This method reduces the maximum difficulty by some amount." Ricinus says, "You could use one or both methods for combined effect. If your skill already surpasses the max difficulty for a particular ability, it will not start with a delay regardless of how you attempt to start it." Ricinus says, "Next, and this part so far is still pretty far up in the air, but I'm looking into changing how khris work with concentration." Ricinus says, "Sorry - getting foggy here for a moment, I'm slowing down so I don't boot myself." Ricinus says, "I'd like to change it from the current system of setting concentration down to specific levels, to a system that uses a pulsing concentration loss." Ricinus says, "The balance of these two ideas would be to basically allow a thief to perform about the same amount of their abilities under either system." Ricinus says, "The bonus to this proposed method would allow a player to overload a few extra khri when they need it, but doing so would certainly cause their concentration to hit bottom after a short period of time, causing all khri to cease effect." Ricinus says, "EXP gain from using khris will work a lot like cyclic spells, though no where near as good, since you'll be able to have a number of khri running at once." Ricinus says, "And finally, I'm thinking you'd now get a choice of the first 3 khri at circle 5, and the other 2 at circle 10. Khri awarding continues as usual from there." Ricinus says, "And now for the moment you've all been waiting for..." Ricinus says, "Well, Q&A about that stuff at least." FF is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at FF and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. Ricinus chuckles. FF asks, "So, are we going to be needing to get feats like others now? Or will we have our own set of feats to augment/improve our Khri use?" FF chuckles. Ricinus says, "That's kinda where the different methods of starting khri were born from." FF asks, "Okay, so we'll all be able to do this right off the bat?" Ricinus says, "Also because I wanted to have a way to get more out of khri when you might have lower skills because of the newness of the skills." BB adds his name to the speaker's list. Ricinus says, "In general where I can I'd like to have khri have max power delivered at lower skill, with other perks for the higher skills." FF nods. Ricinus says, "Because with grandfathering some of the highest Thieves are going to have fairly meh skill levels." Y is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at Y and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her. Y says, "My concern basically is being able to start our khri while in combat, or whatever abilities. unlike the barbarian meditations." Ricinus says, "You'll be able to just fine." Ricinus says, "The optional ways to start the khri are purely optional." Ricinus says, "Even in combat though you may find it benefitial to start a khri with the delay in order to add some extra power to it." Ricinus says, "The sitting option... uh, maybe not." Ricinus says, "But if you were hiding while sitting...." Ricinus says, "It's there if you want to take advantage of it is the idea." A is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at A and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. A says, "In the brief discussion we had before the meeting, I said I didn't want to have to learn magic." A says, "Now you are telling me I have to learn magic." A says, "I get what you are doing." A says, "I see it." A says, "I do." Ricinus says, "Heh." Ricinus says, "You won't have to prep spells and cast them." A says, "But I still don't care for it, my fear is this..." A says, "You say that now." Ricinus says, "I thought that was your concern." Ricinus asks, "Is that your fear? Or are you still typing?" A says, "My fear is that in the end, we (players) all just end up being the same guild on a base skeleton framework with different names for a few different things, and a few guilds get a few different key abilities." Ricinus says, "Ah." A says, "Because that is certainly what it's looking like more and more." A says, "Not to discount your work at all..." Ricinus says, "No, I understand that." A says, "But I didn't join to be the same as anyone else." Ricinus says, "And it's a good point to bring up." A says, "Look at my characters exp." A says, "I am quite different than most." A shrugs. A says, "I enjoy that fact." Ricinus says, "The only changes I'm working on right now are with khri and ambushes." A says, "I do NOT want to have to fit some mould." T adds his name to the speaker's list. Ricinus says, "And the only change to how you will start and use a khri will be optional." A says, "You say that now..." A says, "As you said, it's not approved." M adds her name to the speaker's list. A says, "Sorry, I'm old school." A says, "I doubt." A says, "I can't help it." Ricinus says, "Yep, trying to talk with the other half of this whole equasion before I move things forward more." GG adds his name to the speaker's list. A says, "I have friends that sing your praises, and I believe them." A says, "I don't doubt that you are one great dude." A says, "Just be gentle man." A says, "We've been through a lot of crap." A says, "We don't need more." Ricinus says, "Will do." A says, "I'm off the soap box." I adds his name to the speaker's list. Ricinus says, "Gotta get to some other folks." DD is next. Ricinus says, "And now I'm lagged up like crazy again, few moments." Z went through a large stone archway. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at DD and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. DD asks, "How is confidence going to work in 3.0? Are we keeping our urban bonus?" Ricinus says, "Yeah, I don't have any plans dealing with confidence currently, so should remain about the same." Ricinus says, "I may tie a reduction in concentration cost to high confidence or something, but it isn't in stone yet." Ricinus says, "And yes, urban bonus will remain." Xibar slowly rises above the horizon. DD says, "Trying to get a feel for how many things we're going to need to "manage" along with khri." DD says, "Fair enough." Ricinus says, "There won't be the same kind of currency system that Clerics, WMs, Barbarians... deal with." DD nods. Ricinus says, "No devotion, elemental charge, inner fire." DD says, "That was it from me." Ricinus says, "Concentraion is the currency, and it regens pretty well just on its own." P is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at P and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. P asks, "I'm concerned about this Utility instead of Warding design (I want us to be distinct from Barbarians, however) the lack of the skills seems to make us be very susceptable to all things magick, and pigeons us into more of if we can't hide from it we're gone (at least this is my inturpretation of Warding and lack of Warding from Forums). Is that going to be how it falls?" Ricinus says, "Well, I think I can work some sorts of warding into utility training skills, but they can't be OMGASHIELD." P says, "No, I understand we won't get WINNER shield, but lack of no shield against magicks, seems to suggest total downfall." Ricinus says, "Instead of warding I've put together an ability list that has a nice set of tools to use for a lot of situations." A adds his name to the speaker's list. P says, "As long as we have tactics and moves to help us combat it, I'm glad." P says, "Thanks." Ricinus says, "Welcome." R is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at R and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. R asks, "Is the cap for how many khri you can put up at one time going to change? Also, have you any idea how you are going to grandfather the magic skills yet?" Ricinus says, "Yes, No." R nods. R asks, "Going up in number?" R says, "On the khri." Ricinus says, "Khri are going to have a number of changes to their costs based on the changes to their function." Ricinus says, "And the change to a pulsing drain will certainly allow for more khri to be in effect at once." F adds her name to the speaker's list. R nods. R asks, "Will combos remain?" Ricinus says, "I want to make sure you can end up with the same basic effects between 2.0 and 3.0." Ricinus says, "Yes, combos will remain." R nods. Ricinus exclaims, "And they will be free!" Ricinus exclaims, "FREE!" R says, "I like that." Ricinus says, "At least end up with the same." R nods. Ricinus nods. R says, "That's all I have." I is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at I and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her. I says, "Big breaht." Z just wandered through a large stone archway leading to the seating area. I says, "Breath, even." I says, "Say I can't speak for everyone, A might agree, for sure, but I don't know how crazy I am about magic opening up for us. One of my favourite things about the guild is that it's different, you know? That we have khris and we're one of the only guilds not squinting and straining their brains on every street corner they walk down. How in development is the magic system? I could be misunderstanding the whole thing too. Are we getting our own magic category only associated with khris? Or are we going to be doing the whole: TM, Aug, Attunement, etc that everyone else has. Will we get a mana to look at? Do we need to? Frankly, I don't want to. I -really- like that we're different." Ricinus exclaims, "OMG!" I laughs softly, trying to hide her amusement. I nods in agreement. I pants. Ricinus says, "We are as far in development of this as me putting together some ideas, passing them around staff, they said looks ok so far, and then me coming to talk with you." Ricinus says, "There will be no mana type." Ricinus says, "No prepping." Ricinus says, "No casting." Ricinus says, "You will use some of the "Magic" skills in the Magic skillset." Ricinus says, "To determine effects and duration of your abilities." Ricinus says, "But no TM." I says, "Sounds like khris that we can adjust based on personal skills. That's... not so bad." I ponders. Ricinus says, "I guess Arcana is whatever it is ight now for thieves." Ricinus says, "And the power of the khri will be dependant on a skill rather than max concentration." Ricinus says, "The really really good side to that is." Ricinus says, "More TDPs from using your abilities." I beams at Ricinus! I happily exclaims, "Not bad at all then!" Ricinus says, "And you guys are behind on those which sucks." CC is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at CC and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. CC says, "My concern is stat distribution." CC says, "Lovely." CC says, "Overcast just as I get time." Ricinus asks, "What about stat distribution?" CC asks, "Anyway, will we be able to adjust stats with so drastic of a change to our core abilities?" Ricinus says, "Probably not, though I am planning to set khri up for a global preview when they are done." Ricinus says, "And a khri wipe I suppose." CC says, "Currentyly I use spar and speed in combat, without that I will most likely not be able to continue with what I currenty do hunt." Ricinus says, "If you look over the proposed ability list and think stat distribution is still an issue, let me know." CC says, "I use both combos at the same time that is." Ricinus says, "Let me go ahead and start pulling out some khri info here." Ricinus says, "Now's a pretty good time." Ricinus points at a tier one chart on the ground. Ricinus drops a tier two chart. Ricinus drops a tier three chart. Ricinus drops a tier four chart. Ricinus drops a khri combo chart. Ricinus says, "I brough charts." Ricinus drops an ambush chart. Ricinus says, "Ok, this is a very very tentative listing of khri and ambushes." Ricinus says, "It should at least show the direction of how things need to go, and it likely nothing close to what a finished product would be." F removes her name from the speaker's list. Y adds her name to the speaker's list. Ricinus says, "I'm going to unsilence things for a bit so people can go nuts." Ricinus says, "Then we'll do more questions." BB says, "WAIT PLEASE." Ricinus says, "Ok, feel free to discuss." Y says, "I don't see spar or speed on the combo chart." BB babbles incoherently. DD asks, "Maybe I missed it with ALL the charts... Was there a perception debuff in there?" CC says, "I am still concerned that i did not take advantage of the stat reset when 3.0 hit as we had no information to base a decision on." I frowns. M says, "Man. I miss them all beginning with S. Still." Ricinus says, "Oh, some of the charts didn't have room for all the abilities on the look or read." AA says, "I have the same look on my face as the day I explained to my cat he was about to be neutered." Ricinus says, "So look then read if the chart is missing stuff." I says, "Neutered theifs." I says, "That makes more sense to me." X says, "Skulk also blocks locates, I don't want to lose that feature." FF asks Ricinus, "Thrown?" AA says, "Look, im a positive guy..but mostly..not all..of what im seeing is a bunch of restrictions so." AA asks, "Im asking what the perks will be?" Ricinus says, "Read through them all before assuming you lost anything." AA says, "Besides free combos, ect." Ricinus says, "Be right back, gonna go outside a moment again." GG asks, "Did vanish vanish?" AA says, "I mean..is khri going to be the same..better..ect..worse." I ponders. Y asks, "And not being able to teach certain types of magic sort of outs folks. any idea on gettting that revamped?" I says, "Guess I'll pipe up in discussion." I says, "With the resent changes." I says, "I've had to drop several levels of hunting." LL just wandered through a large stone archway leading to the seating area. I says, "Can't hide on this any more." M says to AA, "It seems on par to slightly better in regards to power, with a better ability to pick and choose buffs." I says, "Can't hit this." AA asks, "And the optional start khri anytime I get it..but it wont be as good unless I sit?" A says, "My issue is that you keep saying "this isn't set in stone" but then you turn around and say "it will work like this." I asks, "Now we get reduced more?" F just left. AA says, "Look lets face, cant always stop and have a cup of tea." AA says, "Least take out the timer of starting it." W says, "Timer is optional." H says, "Makes it stronger though." AA says, "Right, but it wont be as good if we dont sit." AA says, "Am I understanding this right." R says, "That's the trade off." R says, "It has to be balanced in some way." FF says, "Depending on which one it is and how much skill you have." A says, "Thieves are thieves, we'll ___ if you give us cupcakes and lollipops, I just don't want to get crapped on again." E says, "Timer, and you need to think about training several different magic skills." FF says, "From what I'm understanding if you got the skill, sitting down really wont matter much." Y says, "Having to sit out of combat is a pain in the tail for barbs. just saying i don't want that for thieves too." FF shrugs. R nods to FF. W says, "You don't have to." AA says, "I train 5 weapons as it is..and im the low end..most people train more or double that..I just cant see fitting in 4 or 5 more skills." R says, "It is optional." AA says, "I mean the tdps are nice sure." R looks at AA and shrugs. R asks, "You use khris now?" FF says, "Eh, they train pretty passive as a cyclic." FF coughs. M says to AA, "If it works like cyclics, it's pretty much fire-and-forget. No active training." R says, "You will train when you use them." W says, "New Ambush is nice by the way." FF says, "It will just run after you start." AA asks, "Right, but will that be our only option of training them?" BB asks, "Whats the new ambush?" AA says, "Besides teaching, ect." Cadice says, "I can't wait to see you guys use the new ambush." Cadice makes a cheerful grunting noise. W grins. I asks Cadice, "What is it?" R asks, "Where is the new ambush?" M says, "It's not on Ambush Help yet." H asks, "Does it teach backstab?" I grins at Cadice. Cadice says, "Not telling." Q asks, "Looks like its the default one?" Cadice says, "Not telling! Will ruin the fun." I says, "Ugh, I'm putting off my trip to Ratha for as long as I can." Ricinus says, "Ok, so what do we think of the listing so far." F says, "I would rather not see a khri wipe." T asks, "Are the combos switching to independent khri or do we still need multiple khri to get their effects?" DD says, "Not seeing the perception debuff still. I could have missed it." DD grins. H asks, "Does the new Ambush teach backstab?" Ricinus says, "Still need multiple khri to start combos." R says, "The combos do seems a bit underwhelming." A asks, "Wasn't dirt supposed to be the definition of a perc debuff?" Ricinus says, "The new ambush might, I didn't look at exp for it." DD nods to A. I says to R, "But that's because the individual khris are buffed." Ricinus says, "Ambush sight has a perception debuff." DD says, "Thanks." W says, "Sight is the perception buff." DD winks at Ricinus. I says, "I'm hard pressed to learn BS at all." W says, "Fifth chart." T asks, "Will the khri needed for the combos be the same as they are now?" I says, "And after the chages in combat." Ricinus says, "The combos are freebies, so they're not supposed to be huge, most of what was in the combos is found in strengthened versions of the build up khris." I says, "I've had to drop right out of what teaches." I says, "Use to be able to hide well on sky giants." U says, "Haven't had a problem,but I'm not very big." I says, "Can't hide in the next room on them now." GG says, "Screen as a preception debuff is about the only way I can hide consistantly." Ricinus says, "No, the reqs for which khris unlock certain combos changed a little." Ricinus says, "I don't have a chart for that." U gasps at Ricinus! R asks, "What is your hinderance I?" FF asks Ricinus, "I just have a question about Steady. I used this a lot with my thrown weapon. Is there a way to include thrown in there or add one like Steady to bonus thrown weapons?" I says, "Not much." R says, "Was just guessing." Ricinus says, "The thrown boost is part of the combo that steady is in." BB asks, "Low disc?" H asks, "Steady still help short bow?" I says, "Get no hinderance from armor." Ricinus says, "Spar it is." T asks, "Same deal for melee weapon offensive buff? Must use spar to get it?" Ricinus says, "Yeah, steady affects all bows." W says, "Spar, other chart look." V nods to R. H lets out a long sigh of relief. Ricinus says, "Yep, spar handles both." R says, "Seems like we lost a lot of stat buffs too." V says, "So, do we have to run alll over to the guilds to find who teaches the ambush? or you gunna make it easy for us." Ricinus says, "Just Int." V smiles. A asks, "Seriously?" HH asks, "What?" R asks, "Which khri replaced focus?" Ricinus says, "Because Safe will already do it better." H asks, "Focus is gone?" T says, "Focus will be an agility buff." Ricinus says, "There is no khri that acts like focus." HH asks, "Why not?" R says, "Love focus." BB asks, "Whats a 'Justice Bonus'?" AA says, "Yeah focus and prowess both." Ricinus says, "Because there are khri that give full featured buffs to all the stats focus did, and you can't go past the cap." H asks, "Prowess gone too?" FF says, "Okay, I'm good. I think I can deal with all this." FF smiles. R says, "Understable, I figured that much would happen." AA says, "No saying they are my fav pretty much." I ponders. I says, "Getting hard enough to remember my name, now a whole new set of khris, hate gettin old." Ricinus says, "The type of buff Prowess did is gone, but there's buffs to melee weapons now which will cover it." I leans on H. T asks, "I'm not seeing a strength boost. Where did that move to?" AA says, "What kind of long term cap are we talking about here..I mean just how good can we expecting to train these up now." Ricinus says, "I think I was planning to have Strength in there somewhere." R says, "Like the tactics boost." BB asks, "So where in the SOI will the magics fall?" AA says, "Will we end up training just to get where we are now is what I mean." BB asks, "How well can we expect these eventual 'capped' buffs to work?" Ricinus says, "I'll have to count and make sure I don't go over the number of stat boosts that other guilds have access to." CC says to Ricinus, "Would you mind taking a look at my character sometime to find out if I can survive this change without having to respec stats." Ricinus says, "But there will maybe be Strength in there." BB says to AA, "Yes." GG asks, "How long will these khri last?" P asks, "Is the New Ambus released?" W chuckles. M says to P, "Yes." Ricinus says to CC, "We're a long way away from that point." W says, "It is." P asks, "Err Is the new Ambush released?" U says, "Appreciate the work done on these. I'm happy and hopeful and do not currently believe that the sky is going to fall. Currently." Ricinus says, "Ok, back to silenced, for some better Q&A." BB is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at BB and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. Ricinus says, "It was getting too hectic for me." BB asks, "Few things: 1. Warding vs Debilitation, why debilitation? Are we going to actually see disablers added to something we can do with khri? I'd vote for damage reduction before I'd vote for a disabler that'll be reduced in effectiveness by everyone elses abilities anywyas. 2. Will we be able to 'out-skill' the khri startup delay? 3. If I'm understanding things our maximum effectiveness is going to be limited by our current magic skills so we're in the same boat as barbarians for a few years till we catch up to our current effectiveness, is that about right?" Ricinus says, "Sorry." BB asks, "Also, whats a Justice Bonus?" Ricinus says, "The Warding thing is complicated." Ricinus says, "First having a lot of magic skills to train would be tough for non-magic guilds." Ricinus says, "Narrowing the focus leaves less to train to be able to power all your different types of abilities." Ricinus says, "Thief abilities were already set up with more debilitation, and utility things." Ricinus says, "So cutting out Warding was the better solution." Ricinus says, "2. Yes." Ricinus says, "Also you don't have to have the delay at all if you want." BB chuckles. Ricinus says, "3. Yes and No." BB says, "Sure, at reduced effectiveness. Thats smart." F adds her name to the speaker's list. BB says, "I doubt anyone's going to go that route outside of backtraining, in all honesty." Ricinus says, "Well, you call it reduced effectiveness, I call it regular effectiveness with the option to do some stuff to make you more effective." Ricinus says, "It's going to be situational I think." BB asks, "So if we eat the RT we get bonuses to 'things' and if we dont we get regular khri?" Ricinus says, "If you suddenly get jumped in an invasion, fire off your khri fast to get ready, drop them and put them up slower when you have a breather." Ricinus says, "There is no RT." BB says, "Okay, forget RT." BB says, "Time." Ricinus says, "And justice bonus is something that was in the khri already, I didn't really look at what it did." Ricinus says, "Gotta move along." X is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at X and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her. X asks, "Oh hi. First, can we have a chance to not have our confidence be bottomed out if we get resurrected? Please? Maybe if we're married to the Cleric, not that I'm biased. Secondly, can you define "meh" as it pertains to what our grandfathered skills will be? This is the biggest concern I have with the new system. Thirdly, skulk currently prevents us from being located, can this stay?" Ricinus says, "I'll come back if you had more questions." GG removes his name from the speaker's list. Ricinus says, "I don't mind taking a look at some of the really down sides to confidence." X says, "I love you a little. Don't tell XXXXX." Ricinus says, "It's not part of things currently, but I'll add it to the list to make it a bit friendlier if it makes sense to do so." Ricinus says, "Hehe." Ricinus says, "My guess with grandfathering is that it will be on par with what Barbs got." Ricinus says, "I doubt we could justify doing anything different." X nods. Ricinus says, "So, I'd want the abilities to reach max potency at lower levels, and have ways to reduce things a bit." Ricinus says, "So maybe at the higher end of the difficulty range you'd be more maxing out duration rather than potency." O adds his name to the speaker's list. Ricinus says, "And you could get to that higher range quicker when sitting, or when using the delay option." AA is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at AA and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. AA says, "Will any totally new khri be added? also..this might be a bit off the topic..but will be seeing any skill changes in the future of thief 3.0." AA says, "By skill I mean abilities, ect." Ricinus says, "Well, there's certainly khri with the same names and brand new abilities on the charts there." I removes his name from the speaker's list. Ricinus says, "But I didn't want new names, cause I didn't want to change EVERYTHING." AA says, "I mean anything radically new, like something to help survival skills, climbing, whatever." Ricinus says, "As far as brand new stuff, I don't know." Ricinus chuckles. Ricinus says, "And you have tons of survival skill helpers in there." AA nods to Ricinus. Ricinus says, "If anything new comes along after this I'd say it would be more tie-ins to Backstab related attacks." Ricinus says, "To give you more options to training that skill." Ricinus says, "Backstab would need more work than khri at that point." AA says, "Its that its hard to train, but anything helps." T is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at T and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. T says, "I don't like needing a combo to get my melee offense boost. I've never used combos because I like mixing up different khri without wasting concentration on khri that I don't need. Now I'll have to use a combo with khri that I wouldn't otherwise be using just to get the added effect." T says, "Was about to say that before you silenced us again." Ricinus says, "Ok, I'll take that into consideration." T says, "Will a method for unlearning khri be introduced? It was supposed to happen with the last rewrite, just wondering if you can manage to work it into this one so we don't have to wait until the next rewrite to ask again." Ricinus says, "That's a valid point." Ricinus says, "I'll look into a unlearning mechanic as well." Ricinus says, "Won't be too much since I'll have a preview system and such to do." T asks, "Lastly, Will ambushes be switching to debilitation or will the work like they do now and we'll just have to use the new debilitating khri to train?" A is next. Ricinus says, "They'll mostly be debilitation." Ricinus points a speaker's staff at A and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. A whistles a merry tune. Ricinus says, "Stupid lag." A says, "I see how you are." A laughs! Ricinus says, "Hi." A says, "I have a few questions for a friend who got frustrated and left." A says, "They are concerned that they've already been hit quite hard with the last changes, and were down a LOT of TDPs." P adds his name to the speaker's list. A says, "Now, you are re-doing khri again." Ricinus says, "Being grandfathered will guarantee to catch them up on TDPs at least somewhat." A says, "We are losing khri, again." A says, "They are caught up." Ricinus says, "Well, then get ahead." A says, "Their concern is, what are we GETTING aside from the rewrite." Ricinus asks, "Aside from the ton of abilities on the charts that are brand new?" A says, "I see things being removed, and some things being moved around." A says, "And a lot of things we already have." Ricinus says, "Look again and get back to me." Y is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at Y and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her. Y says, "My concern is twofold. first question- will these changes mean we have to take the grand tour of guildhalls yet again to reget all our khri, or will the ones we have still be functional, except new functions." Cadice raises her arms, causing the ground to tremble and the sky to arc with lightning in a display that sends shivers of fear through your soul. A dark portal opens before Cadice, who calmly steps through it just as it snaps shut. Y says, "Secondly is the matter of teaching of magic skills. For many, they pretend to be mages, will something be added so we can teach the skills if wearing correct pretned title." Ricinus says, "I'm hoping for a wipe, a preview, and then yes, you'll need to hump around after the preview and pick the ones you want." Ricinus says, "I wouldn't want folks to be stuck with one that was totally changed." Ricinus points a speaker's staff at OO and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. OO says, "Just wanted to say my favorite part of steady is the balance correction, and I hope that makes a return in some form." Ricinus says, "Hmm, I didn't have that in my notes." Ricinus says, "That's more of an oversight than an omission." Ricinus says, "I'll see about getting it popped back in." O is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at O and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. O says, "Will the delay/sit option for starting khri, jsut be a way to make them stronger while ar low magic skill, and becoem irrelevant at higher skill? If not, then it seems like you are really giving us two options an nucance way to get full power by sitting/delaying or we can take reduced power and have it work like present..." O says, "Some ugly typnig there sorry." Ricinus says, "Yeah, at higher skill I doubt anyone would use the sit/delay." Ricinus says, "Except maybe for some of the highest tier khri." O says, "Got it." GG is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at GG and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. GG asks, "I know you said ambushes will be mostly debilitation. Does that mean debil is what determines their effectiveness? Will backstabbing play a role?" Ricinus says, "In some cases I'm thinking it will be BS and Debilitation, some might be LT and Debilitation." GG nods. Ricinus says, "I won't say which the new one will be." P is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at P and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. P says, "First I just want to throw out to the Non-forums reading people, the term Supernatural Skillset for the Magical Skillset, might help with understanding. Now more to my question, on the forums it has been brought up to change the skillnames, so that they are less vague, more focused, line-up better with abilities. I'm not for lossing Backstab, however it's already fairly focused, is this something you want to look at somewhat soon, or is this just not on the periperial at all? Also I have some ideas for change in the backstab ability." Ricinus says, "If we were at the point to fleshing out backstab or whatever you'd want to call it with new ways to use and train it, yes. For right now, it's not something I'm looking at." P nods to Ricinus. P says, "That's all." Ricinus says, "And ideas are always good, stick them in the Thief forums, or email them to me." Z is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at Z and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. Z says, "Ricinus, I appreciate the time and effort you're putting into the Guild. I know a lot of people dislike change, but without change, things would get dull and stagnant." Ricinus says, "And you'd get beat up by mages." Z says, "My question is, is there a timeframe when these changes will happen? I'm looking forward to it." Ricinus says, "We're at 0% done as of today." Z says, "Thank you." Ricinus says, "The important step of seeing where most of you players are at on these ideas is going to take at least a few days, maybe a week." Ricinus says, "As far as coding goes..." Z says, "I feel our abilities are lackluster now, so any improvements are welcome." Ricinus says, "Most of the ability stuff I'm completely used to from all the spells I worked on, so a few weeks, plus a few weeks for the backend stuff." Ricinus says, "So lets say soon." Ricinus says, "The top secret project will take the longest." Ricinus says, "I can't beleive no one asked about that yet." GG is next. Ricinus points a speaker's staff at GG and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him. GG says, "Sorry. Had another question about ambushes. Will using the ambushes at level be more difficult than they are now? It seems basing their effectiveness on a a tert skillset will make using them alot more difficult." Ricinus says, "Thats a good reason for BS to be in the mix." Ricinus says, "There will certainly be a lot of balancing the numbers for this sort of thing." Ricinus says, "I practically guarantee that when released, there will be issues like this for some people, and they will be resolved quickly, but then cause a different issue." Ricinus says, "Cause that's how things go." Ricinus points a speaker's staff at I and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her. I curtly asks Ricinus, "What's the top secret project?" Ricinus cackles! Ricinus says, "A project that I don't know if I can get to work, but if I do it will be hellaawesome." Ricinus says, "If I can't get it to work, I don't want you to think I failed you." Ricinus says, "So I'll replace it with something less cool and pretend it was that all along." Ricinus exclaims, "No more questions!" Ricinus says, "Cause the list is empty." II says, "I just got here.." Ricinus says, "So it's loud here again." Ricinus says, "Well, you people did all sit through a really boring meeting with me." Ricinus says, "Here's a hint, it's not a place you'd normally go to get abilities." W asks, "Happen to want to mention the circle req?" Ricinus says, "60." Ricinus says, "I can't beleive no one commented on ambush clout either." GG asks, "How is that gonna work?" BB asks, "So is slash 'fixed'?" BB says, "Cause it still seems pretty broke." Ricinus says, "I was told people would be mad about that one, but I liked it." Ricinus says, "The new plan for Clout." Ricinus says, "And no, slash is still broken, but I should have the fix in later tonight." Ricinus says, "New clout being the anti-mage ambush." HH asks, "I don't see any buffs against all the insane cleric spells, I see we lose skill bonuses to stat bonuses and the ambushes are going to be tertiary skillset?" GG asks, "Does the slash fix include looking at the experience awarded?" HH asks, "Did someone answer my question? Or I'm just getting ignored?" Ricinus says, "Yeah, they're my charts, and they're just a very precursory idea of abilities anyways." Ricinus says to HH, "What question." FF asks, "Concentration de-buff was the answer, was it not?" HH says, "Oh I thought that was is way of saying he didn't think it answerable." Ricinus says, "I'd start with ambush clout on a cleric." Ricinus says, "Then shoot him repeatedly in the face with arrows." Ricinus says, "There's things going on with magic in general that should tone down the casters." HH says, "And can't fire arrows when the stun from not getting to melee is letting their fire eat our legs out." Ricinus says, "The whole balancing act with everything continues to be tugged at." Y says, "I just want to be able to teach magic and stuff." II says, "Well.. some at least." HH asks, "And I came late, so I don't want to be reduntant... BUT are you grandfathering those magic skills like you did for barbs?" U says, "How would we teach magic when we don't know magic? That's some serious BS in BS going on." nod megan FF nods to HH. BB nods to HH. HH says, "Thank you." Y says, "I know plenty already." Ricinus says, "Yeah, the grandfathering should be the same if I had to guess." Ricinus says, "And you also missed the beginning where it's very important to keep in mind that this is just discussion about possibilities not things set in stone." JJ asks, "Ok so i have to wait 20 seconds before my khri starts to work?" Ricinus grins. Ricinus says, "Nope, don't have to wait." Ricinus says, "And also to give you a new toy to play with." B exclaims, "Thanks Ricinus!" FF nods in agreement. B waves. V asks Ricinus, "So your not going to hint at all to the top secret idea?" I hesitantly says to Ricinus, "Does it involve thugs? I like having muscle." Ricinus says, "Hang on, I got a good hint... one moment." BB asks, "So new khri will be like concentration using cyclics then, we can concieveably keep them up forever, right?" Ricinus says, "Ok, here's the hint." Ricinus says, "I saw Kurt Russel do it in a movie." Ricinus says, "Ok, I'll be over by the gate in case anyone else is stuck here." Ricinus waves. GameMaster Ricinus went through a large stone archway. | |||||
| This message was originally posted in The Thieves \ General Discussions - Thieves, by LHALLFIN on the play.net forums. | |||||