Talk:Necromancer

For the image, does someone want to grab the Necromancer guild crest from the DR Cafepress store? I would do it but I have to run... -Thilan 15:18, 18 December 2007 (CST)

Done. --Ogoh 15:49, 2 January 2008 (CST)

Rewrite

Armifer's released enough information that the whole copying and pasting thing isn't viable any longer. I'm currently in the process of reorganizing and summarizing things into a proper article. --Ogoh 01:34, 21 January 2008 (CST)

Thanks Ogoh. You've been doing a great job collecting all the disclosed information. --Aetherie 01:39, 21 January 2008 (CST)

Thanks! I was planning to keep notes anyways -- It just made more sense to do it up here, so everybody could follow along. I took a first stab at the reorganization. I'll fiddle with it later, I'm sure. --Ogoh 17:34, 21 January 2008 (CST)

Split?

The Wiki threw a fit when I tried to incorporate the secrecy info about the Philosophers that armifer posted[1]. It suggested we split the article because it's a little too large. I'm guessing we should create an individual article about the Philosophers and move the information about them there. Thoughts? --Herald 09:51, 23 March 2008 (CDT)

Yes, the article is approaching the large size (again), and we're going to eventually want to split things up. Personally, I'd like to avoid that for a little longer, until the information being released is a little less generalized. For the time being, I got all the new info up on the page without an explosion. --Ogoh 10:57, 23 March 2008 (CDT)

This article really does need to be split up... --Farman 10:47, 26 April 2008 (CDT)

Yep, it's certainly time. Lemme take a stab at it. --Ogoh 12:27, 26 April 2008 (CDT)

Thanatology

https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=26&topic=1&message=17 posted by DR-ZEYURN on 4/5/2009 11:55:52 AM

-::post begins::-
Here's how you're primarily going to learn Thanatology, by performing one of these five rituals upon the corpse.

--PRESERVE-- The preservation ritual does basically what its name implies, preserves a corpse so that it will not decay at the accelerated rate species of Elanthia (that are not adventurers) seem to enjoy. A prepatory ritual for other things, the preservation ritual will make a dead body last much longer, or until skinned and searched. Utilization of this ritual requires some knowledge of first aid, and prevents the ??? and Harvest rituals.

--???--- Knowledge of this ritual has been banned for high blasphemy.

--HARVEST-- The harvesting ritual allows a Necromancer to carve a piece of a corpse out for personal use to some diabolical end at a later point. Doing this ruins any possibility that the corpse could be skinned, but perhaps the Necromancer achieves some higher benefit from it later. Utilization of this ritual requires some knowledge of skinning, and cannot be done if the corpse has been skinned.

--ARISE-- The most time-consuming ritual in the Necromancer's arsenal, the ritual to Arise is performed just before the sorcerous magic needed to imbue a corpse with false life is enacted. The corpse in question must have already been PRESERVEd.

--FETISH-- The only ritual that is not performed on a corpse, this blasphemous ritual imbues a necrotic item that the Necromancer is holding with the power of death. It is presently unknown what uses these fetishes hold, or how many variants there are. Initial observation suggests that the item must be properly set up beforehand, and this ritual is just the final touch.

-::post ends::-

not sure how to do that little forum post thing you do, so i'll do it this way until i figure it out (should make a form for it ;p) --Legeres 17:37, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Post:Thanatology - 4/5/2009 - 11:55
-Glimmereyes 18:10, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

This info ought to be pushed over to Thanatology skill. -Devan 18:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Con Info

There is a lot of info from the Con, I can repost it here for people to format for the wiki if needed.

That would be wonderful, thanks. P.S., sign your posts :P -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 01:15, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Whoops, sorry about that thought it would do it automatically. Not very wiki savvy, heh. ^(talk)

Things I remember from the roundtable:

1) Necromancers will have a certain mana type that they perceive as (pre-outrage getting to the point of them showing up corrupted).

1a)This will be static per the necro in question, and is determined randomly by character flag, sort of like the bard voice thing.

1b)Holy will not be one of the types a necro can show up as having, but everything else is possible.

1c)This mana type will be reflected in the character's default spell prep, as well as messaging for AP spells.

1d) One of the new spells will work in conjunction with this as well. When cast, it will strip all of your transcendental spells from you, then randomize what the rest of your spells appear as to others. The new spell appearances will match up to the mana type you perceive as - Lunar might make it look like you have Shadows up, etc.

2) No matter what Jolebin says, fetishes are for buffing your Risen. They will be created through the thanatology ritual, then put on the Risen to give them whatever effect (a Risen becoming a 'tank type' or 'dps type' were sorts of things mentioned as possible effects) until the Risen drops re-dead. The fetish will be used up in application to the Risen.

2a) There was also discussion about maybe some simple effect fetishes that would be dropped in a room to spy or the like.

3) The ??? ritual is Consume Flesh. Yes, it is necro self healing.

3a)It requires a corpse to be present. The corpse can be PC or NPC.

3b) To heal a part on yourself, the corpse must have its corresponding part not already destroyed. The ritual will destroy the corresponding part on the corpse while healing it on the necro.

3c) No, it doesn't require the necro to literally eat the body part. It's a magical consumption.

4) Lots of Risen discussion

4a) Risen will not have the special attacks of whatever you make them from. IE: Dillo Risen will not ambush, etc.

4b) Risen power is based off of the necro's TM, plus any buffs put on it through thanatology rituals.

4c) Risen 'type' will be determined by the fetishes applied to the Risen. Some types that were discussed: tanks that would taunt creatures away from the necro and have good defenses, dps types ala theives with no backstab (but maybe ambush attacks), scout types.

4d) Risen can use weapons, providing the base creature had hands. They can also possibly carry other items, amount TBD.

4e) Risen will deteriorate over time. Spells will either speed up this decay timer (things that heal the Risen shorten the duration of the Risen) or delay it (One spell in particular had this as its main function)

4f) The duration/decay timer on the Risen stops when you are logged off.

4g) When you log off, your Risen logs off where it is and will return there when you log back on. If had items on it, it will still have them upon return - no vomiting them up like Shadow Servents.

4h) Risen will be able to be moved around independently from their creator, but this will be manual movement on the part of the player. You can't send your Risen to 'find Character' or 'follow Character' and have it move around on its own. You CAN have it return to you automatically (instantly?), regardless of the distance between necro and Risen. Risen don't need ferries.

4i) Risen don't talk, but they can show their creator what they see, provided that the necro used whatever command to be able to see through the Risen.

4j) It is far, far less outrage and time intensive to heal or rez your Risen than it is to create a new one.

4k) No Risen from PC corpses.

also: More spells. I don't remember what they all were exactly =/ However, the lovely Ben from plat was taking notes, so he should be able to fill in that part.

>>Any chance we could NOT have the mana type you appear as be random? Just seems like what it appears as could drastically change how you RP your cover, and rolling up one necro after another until you get the one you want could be... annoying.

Nope. While what the Necromancers do might, in fact, be a science, it's not a precise science. Arcane mana attunement just can't be controlled really well.

ICly, a budding Necromancer probably wouldn't even know they can get away with pretending to be another type of caster (Lyras and company certainly don't), and certainly wouldn't make any long-term plans until after they attained attunement and figured out what was going on.

-Armifer

Your "mana flavor" is with you and easily discernible right at 1st circle: toss an Energy Bolt at something and look at what color it is.

As your Divine Outrage and the necromantic corruption of your body increases, this becomes pretty dodgy and eventually your attunement to the Arcane overwhelms any affinity you have to the conventional mana frequencies. The Perverse would argue that's the point you become a real Necromancer.

-Armifer

There's four reasons why we did it this way.

1: The fiction around Arcane mana and how Necromancers are doing what they do strongly encourages it. 2: There's far less technical overhead. 3: Being able to choose "flavors" would just lead to people wanting backsies on any choice, which generally annoys me and is contrary to the fiction of how attunement works. 4: Even if you had the ability to switch "flavors," it would do nothing but hurt your chances to pass yourself off as Not a Necromancer.

This is not part of an elaborate Necromancer disguise system or a meaningful statement about your character's Ultimate Magical Destiny -- it's an incidental form of misdirection that's merely meant to allow you to walk around the street and get some TM ranks without screaming out you're a Necromancer (Outrage notwithstanding).

-Armifer

>also: More spells. I don't remember what they all were exactly =/ However, the lovely Ben from plat was taking notes, so he should be able to fill in that part.

I am just back home now, so am transcribing stuff from my awful notes. Your list seems to be amazingly thorough actually, so I think I am going to put up the spells first, and then the other stuff in a separate post, which may end up with substantial repetition.

There are 4 spellbooks. Transcendence buffs and the Risen shenanigans cause Divine Outrage. The other two don't. More on Outrage in follow-up post.

TM Spells (NOR)

-Acid Splash -> does 2 random damage types each time its cast, so no-one will have fool-proof resistances against it -Something (cant read my writing) -> When fully targeted gives the necro 10% vitality back as well as dealing damage -Vivisection -> The fabled magic snipe. Scheduled to have a 30th circle requirement -Bloodburst -> Substantial damage, but requires that the caster have a bleeder, or suffer vitality loss ________________________________________

Transcendence (OR) -Butchers Eye -> Skinning+Thanatology buff -Another Eye One (not sure of the name) -> Perc+PP buff The eyes will modify the way your eyes look to the world, and youll get a malevolent glow if both your eyes are destroyed at moment of casting -Calcified Hide -> Cage of Light against physical damage. In context of the new combat shenanigans this will work to reduce the actual damage to bodyparts, not the vitality. -Worms Mist -> Anti-magic shell, discussed in great length previously -Philosophers Preservation -> Evasion+Reflex buff. Deals 10% vitality and fatigue damage on wearing off, but you can refresh it without these penalties. (Continuing to incur Outrage) ________________________________________

Psychic Spells (NOR) -Obfuscation ->Hiding+Stalking buff -Eyes of the Blind -> Invisibility, and will periodically re-invis you over the duration -Rite of Contrition -> Held mana spell that strips you of all Transcendence buffs, and makes any remaining buff you cast on yourself look like spells of the school in your perceived mana type. This isnt fool-proof against people outing you though, since if someone else actually casts the real spell on you, it will appear twice. This spell also reduces your perceived Outrage for the duration. -Visions of Darkness -> Perception debuff on target -Heighten Pain -> Increases damage the target takes -Petrifying Vision -> WvW Halt for Necros -Evil Goo (Z couldnt recall name at the time, and I am too tired to look it up now) -> AoE causing RT based on success ________________________________________

Risen Spellbook (OR) -Call from Beyond -> Raise your Risen from a prepared corpse. Woo! Has a substantial duration (hours), and causes grotesque amounts of Divine Outrage. If the corpse is damaged, the power of the spell will be reduced based on the amount of damage required to be healed. The Risen will come in a selection of flavours, such as Stealthy, Tanky, and Damagy, with the Tanky one actually taunting critters off you. Casters TM, not critter level determines the powers of the Risen. So you can hunt dillos with your rat risen. As was mentioned you will be able to give them items, though they will be required to have the appropriate appendages to wear them. -Reconstruct Body -> Heals a dead body. So this is for use in preparation for getting your Risen up and at them, and will also function on yourself if you ever become a Lich. -Resist Putrefaction -> Reduces degradation of Risen and buffs it based on type (so the tank would get defensive buffs, the damagy dude a damage one, and stealths for the other one) -Possible Explosion Spell -> It has been mentioned there may be a spell that blows up your Risen for substantial AoE damage.

Outrage: Outrage is BAD. Not fun-bad where you want to max it out just to show how much of an individual you are, but actually, tangibly bad to where you will want to fly under the radar. Outrage will decay gradually as you are logged in, but you can only get a total of 2.5hrs worth of drain per day. So if you go mental on outrage spells, it could be a long long time getting out of the dog house. No mention was made of an active way to reduce outrage. Only spells from Transcendental/Risen books cause it. Thanatology rituals do not, as a guy gotta train, like. There will be signs as you are nearing the top end of Divine Outrage. If you hit endzone on DOR, casting any further spell causing Outrage will have a >5% chance of being slain on the spot in entirely undramatic fashion, though you will be free to imagine something much cooler happened. Social Outrage is what allows people to squeal on you to the justice system. It is essentially guaranteed to work if you are within the justice area with your Risen or Transcendence buffs active. Beyond that Charisma will be a factor in seeing whether or not the posse is sent after you (and in sentencing if you get caught). The posse will not be the automatic one you get for in-town murder, so escaping will help somewhat. False (or unsuccessful) accusations will end up with the accuser being charged with forbidden practices, so you dont get perma-outed as a necro for having that on your rap sheet. Social Outrage is not province-specific, so I assume its just the same pool as Divine Outrage.

Risen: Yay Risen! Risen will cause the most outrage of anything you can do, so it behooves you to pick one and keep it around as long as possible. Letting you learn TM off Risen damage is being considered. Risen will not be able to go look for players, though you are free to move it around remotely by telling it which direction to shamble off in. You will be able to see through their eyes like a familiar, but they will be unable to speak. They will be able to return to you instantly from anywhere by being commanded to follow and moving to an adjacent room. They will be able to drop items you give them, so can be used as a super-awkward, but blissfully impersonal delivery system, since the names will be <creaturetype> Risen, not <yournamehere>s <creaturetype> Risen.

Mana Mana: As already mentioned, Necromancers will be set to a random pretend guild effectively at character creation. They will start off with that guilds prep, and when perceived will seem to be using the appropriate mana type. This type cant be holy. In terms of mana available for the necromancer to use in any given room, that is based on all 4 mana types. Holy will determine what proportion of life and elemental will be used, with lunar mana giving a bonus. So we will have some of the fluctuation of the moonies, but mostly other peoples big mana rooms should be handy for us too, if you are for some reason unhinged enough to hang around triage or something.

Thanatology: Learned by interfering with corpses. Teaching range scheduled to be in line with combats for that creature. Preservation will keep the corpse around longer, contest and teach first aid, and prep it for Call from Beyond. So prepare to hunt in awesomely terrifying rooms littered with corpses. Consumption is a ritual that (if successful) will heal you somewhat. The catch is that healing comes from the corresponding body part, so you will start looking at how exactly you kill things. Harvest Ritual collects various bits and pieces from a corpse for creating fetishes and grafting. It also contests and teaches skinning. Grafting is still on the cards, and the ability to graft onto your Risen will come before your ability to graft onto yourself. Both will be Thanatology-based guild abilities. Fetishes, as discussed, will provide temporary buffs to your Risen, in a somewhat CJ-way. They may also have other miscellaneous uses, such as planting them in a room to view it remotely.

Im a Survival Prime!: Necromancers are not getting a bonus to survival skills anywhere. We are getting Risen. Which is awesome, even though the Stealthy Risen will not be able to steal from shops :-/ Necros are not getting a guild-specific dismantle because Z thinks they are stupid. I agree they are stupid, but think they are a fun-kind of stupid that made this feel like the only low point of the roundtable. The empathy/thanatology crossover for teaching is still on the cards, and a proposal will be put forward to have the transference link requirement removed for these classes, though it has not been approved yet. This will be fun for the necros who end up with life mana.

Guild Release: The release is mostly held up by Risen coding at the moment. The bright side is that they will function mostly within creature mechanics, so the wheel is not being re-invented and a tentative expectation exists to have a release in three monthsish. There will be no circle cap at release, so Mr. Totenus can fly to 150 at a dizzying pace. There will be one guild leader at release. There will be no skill checks to get into the guild, so you can join from the character generator. ________________________________________

This is pretty much the extent of my notes and questioning from the con. I apologise to the original poster and the rest of ye for duplicating some of the material, but it was much much easier for me to just write up everything I had, which is quite a lot. I see now I missed out on asking a few things I should have (and simply didn't grasp some of the stuff explained properly, like I know now we'll get our favours from the thing behind Lyras, but don't remember if this will start happening the first time you hit DOR endzone. I think that's it), but all in all I feel pretty sated to work towards the guild release now.

>>-Something (cant read my writing) -> When fully targeted gives the necro 10% vitality back as well as dealing damage

Oh hey. Pretty sure that was Siphon Vitality. I also remember that it was stated that snap casts would not give health back to the necro, but would still damage the target.

>>-Philosophers Preservation -> Evasion+Reflex buff. Deals 10% vitality and fatigue damage on wearing off, but you can refresh it without these penalties. (Continuing to incur Outrage)

Adding to this - the 10% vit damage when the spell wears off is based off of the caster's BASE vitality, not current. A necro can die if not careful.

>>apologise to the original poster and the rest of ye for duplicating some of the material, but it was much much easier for me to just write up everything I had, which is quite a lot.

<3 You didn't even laugh at me (that I remember)when I dropped my drink my in shoe on the patio, a little redundancy I can forgive.

>>I see now I missed out on asking a few things I should have (and simply didn't grasp some of the stuff explained properly, like I know now we'll get our favours from the thing behind Lyras, but don't remember if this will start happening the first time you hit DOR endzone. I think that's it),

I'm remembering the favor thing that way, sort of. The thing behind Lyras (that Z giggles about no one figuring out the identity of) is the necro favor giver, and once you hit the DOR tipping point you will be stripped of all regular favors on the spot. At that time, you'll need to start getting necro favors, providing you want to stick around still. I don't remember anything being directly stated about how you'll do that, however.

>>Also, at one point Lyras stuck a boney arm outa her robe and ripped someones chest out. Is that a spell ? I sorta assumed it was an SVS test. But i was told it mighta been a graft thing too... Any info on this move?

It's just one of her gmpc special abilities. It is technically a graft, though. >>Entropy's Glory, this is likely the best accounting of what it is.

I'll give you this one for free. Entropy's Glory was manifestation #2.

Before you get any ideas, however, note that "The Hunger" has invested considerably more of itself into the incursion this time than "Entropy's Glory" ever did. Edward's gambit has about zero chance of working again.

I won't further confirm or deny any guesses (it's meant to be a mystery), but I will point out one thing.

There is an arbitrary number of extraplanar... things out there. Do not assume that Maelshyve and Chezarek's demon and the Hunger and so on are all connected just because they all happen to exist. Though they might be connected for other reasons.

Ultimately, we're never going to flat out tell you who the Hunger is. Its identity exists largely to provide internal consistency for how we portray it, and to provide an enduring mystery surrounding what is going on. No harm done if you figure it out (or create a compelling narrative that's wrong), but don't except any confirmation anytime in the future.

-Armifer

Liches or people who have achieved some measure of true Transcendence (though not necessarily full) are above being struck down by the gods' whimsy.

-Z

>>I read the unspoken ending to this as "and therefore require their briefly focused malice instead."

The struck dead penalty is an expression of the gods' contempt. You are being struck down with as much concern and effort as you would swat a bug on your computer desk. The living, mortal Necromancer is within the Immortals' control.

When a Necromancer has taken the Descent, and especially if a Necromancer ever managed to complete the Great Work, the Necromancer is not so much anymore. They're Something Else and the gods cannot simply wish them away anymore. The gods have to approach them as legitimate threats, demonic pawns...

...or, the Philosophers would argue, equals.

-Armifer

There ya go. ~User:Xzean

Updates

I sorta took it upon myself to do all the Con updates, considering they still hadn't been touched. I don't mind keeping it up to date, although like I said before it might be a bit messy and anyone should be welcome to clean up something I didn't do right. --Xzean 1:08 PM EST Sept 09 2009

Guild Goes Live

I removed the disclaimer about the guild's not being live in the game. Here is the relevant GM announcement:

Speculation and Hinting · on 11/22/2009 10:50:52 PM

I realize people kind of have an expectation that there'll be a bit of a wink wink nudge nudge regarding how we as GMs will react during the release of the Necromancer Guild.

So, I'm just going to offer a few suggestions regarding a possible search.

1) There's only one guild.

2) The guild is in P1.

3) If you were hypothetically going to search for the guild, I would suggest doing it by going through old areas and examining them very closely to find an entirely new area.

-Z

http://www.play.net/dr/info/spells/spelllist.asp?guild=11

Not sure what you guys want to do with this, but this got put up last night. Reene 17:59, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Guild Page compared to others + valid information.

Guild Page + Limits on info

Two things.

For one, alot of work needs to be done to bring this guild page into somewhat of a similar appearance as the other guild pages. This includes following the pattern of Guildhalls/Skillset/Special Abilities/and then a link to the guild spells. Currently, there is a great amount of floating lore and GM discussion in the guild page. Though this is information, it really isn't needed for the front page description of the guild, as with all the other guilds. Since its an official guild now and not just speculation, we should clean it up.

Two, guild location? I'm not going to get into a huge posting war / online-persona power struggle on whether or not to alert about talking to the monks. This site is dedicated to the distribution of information about Elanthia, and is the largest collection of DR information, secret or not, on the web. Currently, any google search will give a lot more information then just that of approaching the monks out the north gate, which is bizarre as in the fact that DR information has become harder and harder to locate in the recent years when trying to find it.

If one is to seriously take up the position that DR secrets should be kept secret on a third party site (which seems to be a bit of a roleplay position outside of the game...) then it is doing nothing but pushing viewers to other sites (I for one had to do so, and one could also point to a large forum community that has formed to answer such questions). One must also consider deleting all the information about thief guild leaders, thief khri, guild cantrips, guild 100 circle abilities, various guild quested abilities, quested spells (Shadewatch mirror, etc), and how to get to various locations long considered normal.

Feel free to post any secret you care to add, HOWEVER, do it on a separate page clearly marked as a spoiler page. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 08:26, 19 December 2009 (UTC)