Talk:Idon Raiders

This article reads like an advertisement. It could use a rewrite with a more neutral point of view. I'll abstain, however, since it's known that I have conflicted with some of the raider's players in the past, and any changes I make might be viewed to have been made with malicious intent.
--Prime-Lorzelophia

Ditto. Consensus back when we started putting up articles on player-run groups was that pages about them were to be general, standardized outlines, not what this article currently has. Something tells me if I try to fix it someone is going to bitch petulantly because it's me, so it would be nice if someone else would fix this. Reene 15:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I've modified this page somewhat to try and present a more neutral viewpoint. I am not the one responsible for maintaining this page, so all changes are subject to approval. However, feedback is appreciated. --Dinran 22:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

A definite improvement, thanks for taking the time to get it done.--Prime-Lorzelophia 17:44, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

This really doesn't seem like the proper place for opinions. Now that the article is more wikified, and the banner maintaining that it IS a player run organisation is up, I don't think it has a place here. Otherwise where is it going to end? People could start putting OPINIONS on every player page (ie. I don't like Joe because he reported me once. Sally spams the forums, she sucks!), on every militia page and so on. The best place for these type of opinions and conflicts is going to be the play.net boards conflict folders and making your opinion known through word of mouth. --Ysselt 22:03, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I am doing everything i can to NOT make this a battle ground. I have tried to contact Caraamon via his talk page. I simply take down the opinions that are bashing. I am NOT Ragran nor am I trying to hide a thing. I simply think that constant bashing is not necessary considering there is nothing to back up the opinion. One person has constantly posted negatively. One. There were problems when it was first put up but we promptly and quietly fixed every issue that was given to us to fix. Without anger or any kind of conflict. Sarkranis has worked on this and Im simply asking that the bashing stop and understand that more people than Ragran are involved with the raiders and are working their bottoms off. We are ok with being the only player organization with a banner announcing that people shouldnt trust what is said.. We just want it to not be a constant bashing ground. Thank you. The Webmaster of Idonraider.com--IdonsWebmaster 22:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry been a tad busy and I rarely give out my email. The reason you have that banner is because you're part of a group that is surrounded by problems (whether you cause them or not matters not the slightest to me). Like the issue with Veyne's Rings, I put up the banner to let people know that this is an INFORMATION site, not a place for bashing. I am going to contact Fenance, and if he/she cares enough to provide proof of his/her statements, the post will return. Till then, I don't care.

I'm going to restate this: My personal feelings for your group and/or it's activities will not come into play. What determines my actions will be how much of a headache this PAGE causes. If it does cause a problem, then whoever causes it will receive the response. If it's the operators of this group, it will be deleted. If it's another person, they will be blocked from posting. If you have issues with this, post here or on my talk page. -Moderator Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi^(talk) 22:37, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I appreciate the bright red you gave us.. adds a little pizazz to the page! And if Fenance wants to back it up .. by all means let him. Im sure he has a list of all the reporters that are currently in our group who have reported since being a Raider.. and that he can also provide a list of people who also are mentioned in the 'many see it as a joke' as Fenance continually mentions. Thanks again for being so fair! And if there needs to be a place for opinions then we will surely provide anyone with enough space to 'opinionate' (its my new word) away here --IdonsWebmaster 22:49, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, the big bright red banner is funny. i get the text, but its like a toxic zone warning. I know other sites have had it put up Veyne I think. thanks for taking fenance's opinion down. some retard kept puytting it up over and over after it was taken down.
Frankly, i dont care if it's there. I just needed to know the e-process. do people graffiti groups' wiki's? apparently. So, im not surprised. At first i was irate, but that cuz when someone has me by the balls i always seem to react the same way (not always a great idea) take mine back, then cut their's off.
It's nice you can tell the difference between intranerd stalking (caelumia, fenance) and legitimate wiki additions. I don't know you well, cara, but you haven't struck me as a tard.
The way I see it is like this: if they could win IG, they be happy enough with that. If they could win on the play.net boards, they'd sit back in a state of self-exultation. But they can't win. So they screw with the wiki. lol.
We must be doing something right :) -Ragran

Fenance has provided me with a list of posts that he feels as evidence for his additions. He will be posting them here for a reasonable discussion on whether they are accurate. Please keep it civil.

Also, since you all are intimately involved in this problem, please read my suggestion for the policy for these situations. Until it is fully discussed, I will be relying on my own judgement. -Moderator Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi^(talk) 23:19, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

You know, im starting to feel hassled by the wiki. And we have obsessive players (Fenance) stalking us lol. Might be time to pull it. We shall discuss. I think Wiki is awesome. But we have a website, so...if the info here wont be accurate, cant be relied on for disseminating accurate information. - Ragran

Keep in mind, that while you may maintain this page, that does not mean that it will be deleted if you stop. You are more than welcome to contribute your opinion or disagree with others in a civil manner, same as everyone else. The page will remain whether or not you do. I'm sorry if you feel something is unfair. I am trying my best to be as even-handed as I can. In fact, I have alerted all the other SysOps to this debate. If you feel the problem is with me, please talk to them. -Moderator Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi^(talk) 23:32, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

lol. YOU REALLY WANT US AROUND! MWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAH! No problem with you, man. I dont even know ya. Just that seems like a pointless endeavour to have a source of information that has exposure to creepy intrastalkers. No comment on you, since again, i have no experience with ya, but you should know "many find them a joke" is...a...joke. lol. just common sense. Also, i have heard that lots of pages get locked when too m uch silliness goes on. I havent asked for that, but this seems pretty silly. You would like a debate between we and out stalker now? If that's fun for you, then i know somethign abnout oyu. If you would like to maintain a mature source of information you will just leave the page as it is without the silly "joke" comment, and lock it. But, again, I have no experience with you. Do you feel our page is so unweildy that we need to be hassled like this? I think its pretty standard myself. And the intent by the person that produced it was pure...all she wants is to make stuff and give them to other people. She doesnt need a fenance ruining her vibe because he is a scourned something-or-other. - Ragran

oh my. i just saw fenance's "evidence"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. for a sec he actually had me wondering if a raider had done something at all. - Ragran

I have personally taken the time to follow Fenance's links and have answers for all

I have highlighted my responses to his accusations by being a bit lazy and coping and pasting ..

As to the Forum Spamming, Ragran admitted he did it on the forums (see Conflicts Folder, "Fenance Frokken" thread). **** HERE he admitted and immediately STOPPED.. he wasnt intentionally spamming nor was he asked to stop by any mod on those forums* As for the the reporting, see here for just one example (Skilair, in this case). It's quite well known that a select group of Raiders are known reporters.***I think here you need to find an instance when she reported AS A RAIDER.. and please leave her alone this girl has taken so much crap on this and has never once reported as a raider NOT ONCE Hereby making DR a much better place because the raiders have in the name of Idon converted her to a non reporter This was in March of 2007***** Fenance 22:47, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

See also Here, the send from GM Acanthor referring to Ragran having reported as well. Note I'm not referring to the report in response to the Send, I'm referring to Acanthor's mention of Ragran having reported in the past. Or, see also here, discussing Skilair and Khalikryst's predilection for reporting. Fenance 22:51, 21 January 2009 (UTC) *** that was not ragran admitting to reporting nor a gm saying he reported a pvp conflict.. that was in fact ragran showing a log of himself pvping and asking to make sure he had proper consent... and AGAIN WAS IN 2007 there were no raiders in 2007 ***

Oh finally, one more where an Idon Raider admits that their members report. [1]. Fenance 22:54, 21 January 2009 (UTC) *** and here was removed FOR reporting as we have always stated.*** no need to point out the obvious here when we in fact have said time and bloody time again .. IF YOU REPORTED BEFORE OK BUT DONT DO IT AS A RAIDER OR YOU WILL BE REMOVED... and we've stood by this and will continue too. This is getting quite old**--WebmasterIdonraiders 00:07, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Citations

Idon Raiders/Posts.

I agree with Ysselt that an organization's Elanthipedia article is not the place to criticize how the organization is run.

I recognize that Elanthipedia is a wiki, and therefore, it is impossible to eliminate all statements of opinion. Nonetheless, I still believe that Elanthipedia was intended to be an archive of factual information about DragonRealms and not a forum for players to discuss their personal opinions of people and organizations.

Prohibiting personal opinions on Elanthipedia would not significantly decrease players' ability to air their grievances. There are several other outlets for players who want to discuss such issues: the Play.net forums, third-party forums, in-game, etc.

I understand that Caraamon, as a moderator, will sometimes have to make difficult decisions about the type of information that is suitable for Elanthipedia articles. However, I think that allowing negative opinions with sufficient "proof" puts Elanthipedia on a path down a slippery slope. Such a policy would detract from the overall purpose of Elanthipedia and encourage people to resolve their interpersonal conflicts by editing Elanthipedia articles.