View source for Post:Thief OOC Meeting Log from 06122013 (all names changed to protect the innocent) - 06/13/2013 - 15:38

{{Post
|a=LHALLFIN
|t=Re: Thief OOC Meeting Log from 06122013 (all names changed to protect the innocent)
|d=06/13/2013 03:38 PM CDT
|n=2087
|f=The Thieves \ General Discussions - Thieves
|c=e,l
|p={{wikify}}
Really tried my best (without taking HOURS) to change everyone's name (changed to random letters, not initials) and remove all titles. If I missed something (like a name, or something that would easily identify your character) I sincerely apologize, I'll delete the post and try again. I tried to take out actions and junk scroll where I could, without it taking too long, or impacting any of the questions and answers.

All references to what the charts actually say has been removed, see my other thread in this folder regarding [[Post:First_Draft_New_Ambush/Khri_Charts_(from_thief_OOC_Meeting)_-_06/13/2013_-_13:52|AMBUSH/KHRI CHARTS]].

Edit Number 4: Just some formatting this time. Hope I'm not making the forum mods too mad yet.

I really need an edit button.

----

[[Ricinus]] says, "So just curious before we begin, what sort of reservations do you folks have about Thieves joining the 3.0 thing."

A says, "I'm terrified."

A chuckles.

DD asks, "Can we vote on it?"

P says, "I'd like to quickly throw out the slip stand, slip lay, slip kneel, and any other body position movements, also slip search..."

DD grins.

A says, "I've had to readjust already, doing it again scares me even more."

AA says, "Im a little worried about what will become of Khri, to be honest."

S says, "I worry about our khri's being underpowered once we swap."

M just wandered through a large stone archway leading to the seating area.

X says, "I hate magic. It gives me a headache. I'm also scared about what I'm getting grandfathered to."

AA nods.

Y says, "Not being able to teach magic is a b, frnakly."

A nods to S.

BB says, "I figure we'll be barbs for the first year or two."

AA says, "I dont want to learn spells man."

AA says, "Please dont make me use magic."

W says, "Personally love 3.0 and look forward to it."

P says, "I think we are sourly out of date, and out of touch, so we might as well start to get updated."

W nods in agreement.

A says, "I don't want to have to raise and lower my khri to train a skill."

I smirks.

S says, "I am looking forward to the easy TDPs."

Y says, "I'm not too keen on 3.0 for this character, still down a whole lot of TDPs."

Y says, "My mages were more than happy though."

R says, "I have to agree with S and BB."

BB says, "Finally have decent stats to play with all the folks who've been sucking up magic ranks for 15 years."

P says, "The GMs got another referencement."

I grins at S.

[[Ricinus]] says, "Yeah, TDP issues is one of the main reasons I wanted to push ahead with getting you folks to 3.0."

P says, "Err reinforcement."

R says, "Looking forward to the benfits it will give us in the long run."
 
AA says, "I am curious if we did switch to a magic system..what types of spells are we talking here."

V waves to W.

S asks, "We'll still be out on TDPs from the other half of the magic skillset though, any plans to address that?"

AA says, "Or am I just hearing crazy rumors from the mill."

R says, "Wouldn't be spells."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And a lot of your other concerns are things I've considered a bit when designing some of the framework for abilities."

AA says, "Good."

R says, "Just khri powered by magic skills."

W says, "I just pray Khri's teach persistantly while they are up."

BB asks, "Are we going to stay to the khri framework?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Yeah, no plans for spells."

A says, "I don't want my Khri to teach anything."

I nods.

AA says, "Honestly, I like khri just the way it is."

BB says, "Loyal to the framework that is."

A says, "I've spent a long time earning them."

I nods at AA, obviously agreeing with his views.

[[Ricinus]] says, "And yeah, I've got a ton of info on a possible khri solution here with me today."

AA says, "I dont see it needing "fixing."

M observes [[Ricinus]] with fascination.

S asks, "I imagine our khri system will be similar to Barbs?"

BB says, "No way, khri need fixing."

Y says, "And i'm wondering on the grandfathering part."

DD says, "Well let's hear it."

DD leans down and shakes [[Ricinus]]'s shoulders!

R says, "It's not fixing, so much as being updated to the rest of the game."

U says, "I also hope they get updated."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Sorta, but I think I've added some perks to it that will help overcome the training gap from grandfathering."

I asks, "Didn't they just 'fix' khris?"

AA says, "I mean just speaking frank, we already took a backstab hit with crits being taken out."

Cadice says, "The perks are awesome. I am excited."

BB smirks at I.

Y nods to AA.

R says, "5 years ago."

R nods to I.

F just wandered through a large stone archway leading to the seating area.

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ok, we'll get started in a few minutes."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Please take this moment to yell out something crazy to release any possible frustrations."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ok, that's much better."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I appreciate you all showing up here today."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Lots to talk about."

[[Ricinus]] says, "This part will go nice and quick since I already typed it all out."
 
[[Ricinus]] says, "Before we start with the 3.0 discussion, there are a few things to mention not related to 3.0."

[[Ricinus]] says, "First, I've made some changes to Ambush Slash to eliminate a few issues that were causing it to overperform."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Most notably, the stun duration of the ability is now determined by your offense vs defense success score, and is now capped at both ends by the standard crowd control durations that most all abilities already use. This also means that it is subject to stunlock prevention."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The damage it deals has also been changed, instead of handling its own damage production, it lets the core special attack stuff handle it, which means things like vitality mitigation."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Next - the new ambush..."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ambush slash changes aren't quite live yet, but will be a bit later."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Is live. Enjoy. Your enemies will hate me. It's a bit more suited to PvP and boss encounters, and not so useful for day to day hunting, but you folks have a fair range of general use stuff already so I don't mind."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ok, now on to the meat and potatoes of what we're here for."

[[Ricinus]] says, "As most of you know already, Magic 3.0 introduced a new way to handle spell abilities both in how they perform and how they're classified."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Barbarians were also brought into the fold during the original 3.0 conversion, Thieves were not because their stuff wasn't going to break very badly if they were brought in later."

[[Ricinus]] says, "It's now later, so I've been putting together plans for how Thief 3.0 is going to look."

[[Ricinus]] says, "As of right now, this is all just "A plan". It is not necissarly "The plan", and even the proposal that is circulating among staff members hasn't been fully approved, though it has also not generated any major concern so far."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Even if the plan I have set up is approved, it is widely understood that it is intended to be a loose framework on which numerous changes are likely to happen."

[[Ricinus]] says, "So if you don't initially like what you hear tonight, don't think it's the end of the world, or the ruination of the Thieves Guild. Tell me why you don't like it, and I'll be happy to see if we can find something that works better that is still within certain boundaries."

[[Ricinus]] says, "So, here's a few of those boundaries."

[[Ricinus]] says, "First, Thieves need to be able to train Inner Magic, Augmentation, Utility, and Debilitation skills."

[[Ricinus]] says, "You'll notice there is no Warding skill listed. Barbarians don't have Utility, Thieves don't have Warding. This may sound rough at first, but when you look at the range of abilities, I think you'll see this is highly workable."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Next, abilities can't buff something that another ability already buffs."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Right now there are certain khri that boosts a skill by a larger amount, then another khri adds a smaller amount of that same thing."

[[Ricinus]] says, "In 3.0 a khri that boosts a skill will be the only boost in your ability set that boosts that skill, and the range will generally be the same as having the boost from both abilities in 2.0."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Of the khri that behave like that I've done the math on, the 3.0 version has had a higher high end buff than the combination of the two abilities in 2.0."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Finally we need to be able to train Augmentation, Utility, and Debilitation from 0 to 1500 ranks with the abilities. And there needs to be an increase in how a player performs using their abilities for most of that range."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ok, so lets move on to a couple of the more negotiable ideas for 3.0."

[[Ricinus]] says, "These are things I've proposed to help Thieves get over some of the hurdles I expect from following the above mentioned rules."

[[Ricinus]] says, "First, since khri need be more effective through a longer range of skills I would like to set up a varied method for starting your khris."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Each khri would have a base difficulty, which would contest a mixture of Inner Magic and the appropriate subskill. If you were to start the khri as you are used to, instantly, you would be doing so contested by that difficulty."

[[Ricinus]] says, "There will be two ways to reduce that difficulty, and by reducing the difficulty increase the potency of the ability."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The first is by sitting/kneeling/prone. This method reduces the minimum difficulty of the ability."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The second method is by introducing a delay in the ability's activation. You would attempt to start the ability, then 10-20 seconds later it would take effect. This would not be a RT action, but there may be restrictions on what sorts of activites would break your concentration. This method reduces the maximum difficulty by some amount."

[[Ricinus]] says, "You could use one or both methods for combined effect. If your skill already surpasses the max difficulty for a particular ability, it will not start with a delay regardless of how you attempt to start it."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Next, and this part so far is still pretty far up in the air, but I'm looking into changing how khris work with concentration."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Sorry - getting foggy here for a moment, I'm slowing down so I don't boot myself."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I'd like to change it from the current system of setting concentration down to specific levels, to a system that uses a pulsing concentration loss."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The balance of these two ideas would be to basically allow a thief to perform about the same amount of their abilities under either system."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The bonus to this proposed method would allow a player to overload a few extra khri when they need it, but doing so would certainly cause their concentration to hit bottom after a short period of time, causing all khri to cease effect."

[[Ricinus]] says, "EXP gain from using khris will work a lot like cyclic spells, though no where near as good, since you'll be able to have a number of khri running at once."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And finally, I'm thinking you'd now get a choice of the first 3 khri at circle 5, and the other 2 at circle 10. Khri awarding continues as usual from there."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And now for the moment you've all been waiting for..."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Well, Q&A about that stuff at least."

FF is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at FF and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

[[Ricinus]] chuckles.

FF asks, "So, are we going to be needing to get feats like others now? Or will we have our own set of feats to augment/improve our Khri use?"

FF chuckles.

[[Ricinus]] says, "That's kinda where the different methods of starting khri were born from."

FF asks, "Okay, so we'll all be able to do this right off the bat?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Also because I wanted to have a way to get more out of khri when you might have lower skills because of the newness of the skills."

BB adds his name to the speaker's list.

[[Ricinus]] says, "In general where I can I'd like to have khri have max power delivered at lower skill, with other perks for the higher skills."

FF nods.

[[Ricinus]] says, "Because with grandfathering some of the highest Thieves are going to have fairly meh skill levels."

Y is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at Y and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her.

Y says, "My concern basically is being able to start our khri while in combat, or whatever abilities. unlike the barbarian meditations."

[[Ricinus]] says, "You'll be able to just fine."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The optional ways to start the khri are purely optional."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Even in combat though you may find it benefitial to start a khri with the delay in order to add some extra power to it."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The sitting option... uh, maybe not."

[[Ricinus]] says, "But if you were hiding while sitting...."

[[Ricinus]] says, "It's there if you want to take advantage of it is the idea."

A is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at A and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

A says, "In the brief discussion we had before the meeting, I said I didn't want to have to learn magic."

A says, "Now you are telling me I have to learn magic."

A says, "I get what you are doing."

A says, "I see it."

A says, "I do."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Heh."

[[Ricinus]] says, "You won't have to prep spells and cast them."

A says, "But I still don't care for it, my fear is this..."

A says, "You say that now."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I thought that was your concern."

[[Ricinus]] asks, "Is that your fear? Or are you still typing?"

A says, "My fear is that in the end, we (players) all just end up being the same guild on a base skeleton framework with different names for a few different things, and a few guilds get a few different key abilities."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ah."

A says, "Because that is certainly what it's looking like more and more."

A says, "Not to discount your work at all..."

[[Ricinus]] says, "No, I understand that."

A says, "But I didn't join to be the same as anyone else."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And it's a good point to bring up."

A says, "Look at my characters exp."

A says, "I am quite different than most."

A shrugs.

A says, "I enjoy that fact."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The only changes I'm working on right now are with khri and ambushes."

A says, "I do NOT want to have to fit some mould."

T adds his name to the speaker's list.

[[Ricinus]] says, "And the only change to how you will start and use a khri will be optional."

A says, "You say that now..."

A says, "As you said, it's not approved."

M adds her name to the speaker's list.

A says, "Sorry, I'm old school."

A says, "I doubt."

A says, "I can't help it."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Yep, trying to talk with the other half of this whole equasion before I move things forward more."

GG adds his name to the speaker's list.

A says, "I have friends that sing your praises, and I believe them."

A says, "I don't doubt that you are one great dude."

A says, "Just be gentle man."

A says, "We've been through a lot of crap."

A says, "We don't need more."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Will do."

A says, "I'm off the soap box."

I adds his name to the speaker's list.

[[Ricinus]] says, "Gotta get to some other folks."

DD is next.

[[Ricinus]] says, "And now I'm lagged up like crazy again, few moments."

Z went through a large stone archway.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at DD and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

DD asks, "How is confidence going to work in 3.0? Are we keeping our urban bonus?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Yeah, I don't have any plans dealing with confidence currently, so should remain about the same."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I may tie a reduction in concentration cost to high confidence or something, but it isn't in stone yet."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And yes, urban bonus will remain."

Xibar slowly rises above the horizon.

DD says, "Trying to get a feel for how many things we're going to need to "manage" along with khri."

DD says, "Fair enough."

[[Ricinus]] says, "There won't be the same kind of currency system that Clerics, WMs, Barbarians... deal with."

DD nods.

[[Ricinus]] says, "No devotion, elemental charge, inner fire."

DD says, "That was it from me."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Concentraion is the currency, and it regens pretty well just on its own."

P is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at P and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

P asks, "I'm concerned about this Utility instead of Warding design (I want us to be distinct from Barbarians, however) the lack of the skills seems to make us be very susceptable to all things magick, and pigeons us into more of if we can't hide from it we're gone (at least this is my inturpretation of Warding and lack of Warding from Forums). Is that going to be how it falls?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Well, I think I can work some sorts of warding into utility training skills, but they can't be OMGASHIELD."

P says, "No, I understand we won't get WINNER shield, but lack of no shield against magicks, seems to suggest total downfall."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Instead of warding I've put together an ability list that has a nice set of tools to use for a lot of situations."

A adds his name to the speaker's list.

P says, "As long as we have tactics and moves to help us combat it, I'm glad."

P says, "Thanks."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Welcome."

R is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at R and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

R asks, "Is the cap for how many khri you can put up at one time going to change? Also, have you any idea how you are going to grandfather the magic skills yet?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Yes, No."

R nods.

R asks, "Going up in number?"

R says, "On the khri."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Khri are going to have a number of changes to their costs based on the changes to their function."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And the change to a pulsing drain will certainly allow for more khri to be in effect at once."

F adds her name to the speaker's list.

R nods.

R asks, "Will combos remain?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "I want to make sure you can end up with the same basic effects between 2.0 and 3.0."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Yes, combos will remain."

R nods.

[[Ricinus]] exclaims, "And they will be free!"

[[Ricinus]] exclaims, "FREE!"

R says, "I like that."

[[Ricinus]] says, "At least end up with the same."

R nods.

[[Ricinus]] nods.

R says, "That's all I have."

I is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at I and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her.

I says, "Big breaht."

Z just wandered through a large stone archway leading to the seating area.

I says, "Breath, even."

I says, "Say I can't speak for everyone, A might agree, for sure, but I don't know how crazy I am about magic opening up for us. One of my favourite things about the guild is that it's different, you know? That we have khris and we're one of the only guilds not squinting and straining their brains on every street corner they walk down. How in development is the magic system? I could be misunderstanding the whole thing too. Are we getting our own magic category only associated with khris? Or are we going to be doing the whole: TM, Aug, Attunement, etc that everyone else has. Will we get a mana to look at? Do we need to? Frankly, I don't want to. I -really- like that we're different."

[[Ricinus]] exclaims, "OMG!"

I laughs softly, trying to hide her amusement.

I nods in agreement.

I pants.

[[Ricinus]] says, "We are as far in development of this as me putting together some ideas, passing them around staff, they said looks ok so far, and then me coming to talk with you."

[[Ricinus]] says, "There will be no mana type."

[[Ricinus]] says, "No prepping."

[[Ricinus]] says, "No casting."

[[Ricinus]] says, "You will use some of the "Magic" skills in the Magic skillset."

[[Ricinus]] says, "To determine effects and duration of your abilities."

[[Ricinus]] says, "But no TM."

I says, "Sounds like khris that we can adjust based on personal skills. That's... not so bad."

I ponders.

[[Ricinus]] says, "I guess Arcana is whatever it is ight now for thieves."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And the power of the khri will be dependant on a skill rather than max concentration."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The really really good side to that is."

[[Ricinus]] says, "More TDPs from using your abilities."

I beams at [[Ricinus]]!

I happily exclaims, "Not bad at all then!"

[[Ricinus]] says, "And you guys are behind on those which sucks."

CC is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at CC and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

CC says, "My concern is stat distribution."

CC says, "Lovely."

CC says, "Overcast just as I get time."

[[Ricinus]] asks, "What about stat distribution?"

CC asks, "Anyway, will we be able to adjust stats with so drastic of a change to our core abilities?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Probably not, though I am planning to set khri up for a global preview when they are done."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And a khri wipe I suppose."

CC says, "Currentyly I use spar and speed in combat, without that I will most likely not be able to continue with what I currenty do hunt."

[[Ricinus]] says, "If you look over the proposed ability list and think stat distribution is still an issue, let me know."

CC says, "I use both combos at the same time that is."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Let me go ahead and start pulling out some khri info here."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Now's a pretty good time."

[[Ricinus]] points at a tier one chart on the ground.

[[Ricinus]] drops a tier two chart.

[[Ricinus]] drops a tier three chart.

[[Ricinus]] drops a tier four chart.

[[Ricinus]] drops a khri combo chart.

[[Ricinus]] says, "I brough charts."

[[Ricinus]] drops an ambush chart.

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ok, this is a very very tentative listing of khri and ambushes."

[[Ricinus]] says, "It should at least show the direction of how things need to go, and it likely nothing close to what a finished product would be."

F removes her name from the speaker's list.

Y adds her name to the speaker's list.

[[Ricinus]] says, "I'm going to unsilence things for a bit so people can go nuts."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Then we'll do more questions."

BB says, "WAIT PLEASE."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ok, feel free to discuss."

Y says, "I don't see spar or speed on the combo chart."

BB babbles incoherently.

DD asks, "Maybe I missed it with ALL the charts... Was there a perception debuff in there?"

CC says, "I am still concerned that i did not take advantage of the stat reset when 3.0 hit as we had no information to base a decision on."

I frowns.

M says, "Man. I miss them all beginning with S. Still."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Oh, some of the charts didn't have room for all the abilities on the look or read."

AA says, "I have the same look on my face as the day I explained to my cat he was about to be neutered."

[[Ricinus]] says, "So look then read if the chart is missing stuff."

I says, "Neutered theifs."

I says, "That makes more sense to me."

X says, "Skulk also blocks locates, I don't want to lose that feature."

FF asks [[Ricinus]], "Thrown?"

AA says, "Look, im a positive guy..but mostly..not all..of what im seeing is a bunch of restrictions so."

AA asks, "Im asking what the perks will be?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Read through them all before assuming you lost anything."

AA says, "Besides free combos, ect."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Be right back, gonna go outside a moment again."

GG asks, "Did vanish vanish?"

AA says, "I mean..is khri going to be the same..better..ect..worse."

I ponders.

Y asks, "And not being able to teach certain types of magic sort of outs folks. any idea on gettting that revamped?"

I says, "Guess I'll pipe up in discussion."

I says, "With the resent changes."

I says, "I've had to drop several levels of hunting."

LL just wandered through a large stone archway leading to the seating area.

I says, "Can't hide on this any more."

M says to AA, "It seems on par to slightly better in regards to power, with a better ability to pick and choose buffs."

I says, "Can't hit this."

AA asks, "And the optional start khri anytime I get it..but it wont be as good unless I sit?"

A says, "My issue is that you keep saying "this isn't set in stone" but then you turn around and say "it will work like this."

I asks, "Now we get reduced more?"

F just left.

AA says, "Look lets face, cant always stop and have a cup of tea."

AA says, "Least take out the timer of starting it."

W says, "Timer is optional."

H says, "Makes it stronger though."

AA says, "Right, but it wont be as good if we dont sit."

AA says, "Am I understanding this right."

R says, "That's the trade off."

R says, "It has to be balanced in some way."

FF says, "Depending on which one it is and how much skill you have."

A says, "Thieves are thieves, we'll ___ if you give us cupcakes and lollipops, I just don't want to get crapped on again."

E says, "Timer, and you need to think about training several different magic skills."

FF says, "From what I'm understanding if you got the skill, sitting down really wont matter much."

Y says, "Having to sit out of combat is a pain in the tail for barbs. just saying i don't want that for thieves too."

FF shrugs.

R nods to FF.

W says, "You don't have to."

AA says, "I train 5 weapons as it is..and im the low end..most people train more or double that..I just cant see fitting in 4 or 5 more skills."

R says, "It is optional."

AA says, "I mean the tdps are nice sure."

R looks at AA and shrugs.

R asks, "You use khris now?"

FF says, "Eh, they train pretty passive as a cyclic."

FF coughs.

M says to AA, "If it works like cyclics, it's pretty much fire-and-forget. No active training."

R says, "You will train when you use them."

W says, "New Ambush is nice by the way."

FF says, "It will just run after you start."

AA asks, "Right, but will that be our only option of training them?"

BB asks, "Whats the new ambush?"

AA says, "Besides teaching, ect."

Cadice says, "I can't wait to see you guys use the new ambush."

Cadice makes a cheerful grunting noise.

W grins.

I asks Cadice, "What is it?"

R asks, "Where is the new ambush?"

M says, "It's not on Ambush Help yet."

H asks, "Does it teach backstab?"

I grins at Cadice.

Cadice says, "Not telling."

Q asks, "Looks like its the default one?"

Cadice says, "Not telling! Will ruin the fun."

I says, "Ugh, I'm putting off my trip to Ratha for as long as I can."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ok, so what do we think of the listing so far."

F says, "I would rather not see a khri wipe."

T asks, "Are the combos switching to independent khri or do we still need multiple khri to get their effects?"

DD says, "Not seeing the perception debuff still. I could have missed it."

DD grins.

H asks, "Does the new Ambush teach backstab?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Still need multiple khri to start combos."

R says, "The combos do seems a bit underwhelming."

A asks, "Wasn't dirt supposed to be the definition of a perc debuff?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "The new ambush might, I didn't look at exp for it."

DD nods to A.

I says to R, "But that's because the individual khris are buffed."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ambush sight has a perception debuff."

DD says, "Thanks."

W says, "Sight is the perception buff."

DD winks at [[Ricinus]].

I says, "I'm hard pressed to learn BS at all."

W says, "Fifth chart."

T asks, "Will the khri needed for the combos be the same as they are now?"

I says, "And after the chages in combat."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The combos are freebies, so they're not supposed to be huge, most of what was in the combos is found in strengthened versions of the build up khris."

I says, "I've had to drop right out of what teaches."

I says, "Use to be able to hide well on sky giants."

U says, "Haven't had a problem,but I'm not very big."

I says, "Can't hide in the next room on them now."

GG says, "Screen as a preception debuff is about the only way I can hide consistantly."

[[Ricinus]] says, "No, the reqs for which khris unlock certain combos changed a little."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I don't have a chart for that."

U gasps at [[Ricinus]]!

R asks, "What is your hinderance I?"

FF asks [[Ricinus]], "I just have a question about Steady. I used this a lot with my thrown weapon. Is there a way to include thrown in there or add one like Steady to bonus thrown weapons?"

I says, "Not much."

R says, "Was just guessing."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The thrown boost is part of the combo that steady is in."

BB asks, "Low disc?"

H asks, "Steady still help short bow?"

I says, "Get no hinderance from armor."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Spar it is."

T asks, "Same deal for melee weapon offensive buff? Must use spar to get it?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Yeah, steady affects all bows."

W says, "Spar, other chart look."

V nods to R.

H lets out a long sigh of relief.

[[Ricinus]] says, "Yep, spar handles both."

R says, "Seems like we lost a lot of stat buffs too."

V says, "So, do we have to run alll over to the guilds to find who teaches the ambush? or you gunna make it easy for us."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Just Int."

V smiles.

A asks, "Seriously?"

HH asks, "What?"

R asks, "Which khri replaced focus?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Because Safe will already do it better."

H asks, "Focus is gone?"

T says, "Focus will be an agility buff."

[[Ricinus]] says, "There is no khri that acts like focus."

HH asks, "Why not?"

R says, "Love focus."

BB asks, "Whats a 'Justice Bonus'?"

AA says, "Yeah focus and prowess both."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Because there are khri that give full featured buffs to all the stats focus did, and you can't go past the cap."

H asks, "Prowess gone too?"

FF says, "Okay, I'm good. I think I can deal with all this."

FF smiles.

R says, "Understable, I figured that much would happen."

AA says, "No saying they are my fav pretty much."

I ponders.

I says, "Getting hard enough to remember my name, now a whole new set of khris, hate gettin old."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The type of buff Prowess did is gone, but there's buffs to melee weapons now which will cover it."

I leans on H.

T asks, "I'm not seeing a strength boost. Where did that move to?"

AA says, "What kind of long term cap are we talking about here..I mean just how good can we expecting to train these up now."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I think I was planning to have Strength in there somewhere."

R says, "Like the tactics boost."

BB asks, "So where in the SOI will the magics fall?"

AA says, "Will we end up training just to get where we are now is what I mean."

BB asks, "How well can we expect these eventual 'capped' buffs to work?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "I'll have to count and make sure I don't go over the number of stat boosts that other guilds have access to."

CC says to [[Ricinus]], "Would you mind taking a look at my character sometime to find out if I can survive this change without having to respec stats."

[[Ricinus]] says, "But there will maybe be Strength in there."

BB says to AA, "Yes."

GG asks, "How long will these khri last?"

P asks, "Is the New Ambus released?"

W chuckles.

M says to P, "Yes."

[[Ricinus]] says to CC, "We're a long way away from that point."

W says, "It is."

P asks, "Err Is the new Ambush released?"

U says, "Appreciate the work done on these. I'm happy and hopeful and do not currently believe that the sky is going to fall. Currently."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ok, back to silenced, for some better Q&A."

BB is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at BB and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

[[Ricinus]] says, "It was getting too hectic for me."

BB asks, "Few things: 1. Warding vs Debilitation, why debilitation? Are we going to actually see disablers added to something we can do with khri? I'd vote for damage reduction before I'd vote for a disabler that'll be reduced in effectiveness by everyone elses abilities anywyas. 2. Will we be able to 'out-skill' the khri startup delay? 3. If I'm understanding things our maximum effectiveness is going to be limited by our current magic skills so we're in the same boat as barbarians for a few years till we catch up to our current effectiveness, is that about right?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Sorry."

BB asks, "Also, whats a Justice Bonus?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "The Warding thing is complicated."

[[Ricinus]] says, "First having a lot of magic skills to train would be tough for non-magic guilds."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Narrowing the focus leaves less to train to be able to power all your different types of abilities."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Thief abilities were already set up with more debilitation, and utility things."

[[Ricinus]] says, "So cutting out Warding was the better solution."

[[Ricinus]] says, "2. Yes."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Also you don't have to have the delay at all if you want."

BB chuckles.

[[Ricinus]] says, "3. Yes and No."

BB says, "Sure, at reduced effectiveness. Thats smart."

F adds her name to the speaker's list.

BB says, "I doubt anyone's going to go that route outside of backtraining, in all honesty."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Well, you call it reduced effectiveness, I call it regular effectiveness with the option to do some stuff to make you more effective."

[[Ricinus]] says, "It's going to be situational I think."

BB asks, "So if we eat the RT we get bonuses to 'things' and if we dont we get regular khri?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "If you suddenly get jumped in an invasion, fire off your khri fast to get ready, drop them and put them up slower when you have a breather."

[[Ricinus]] says, "There is no RT."

BB says, "Okay, forget RT."

BB says, "Time."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And justice bonus is something that was in the khri already, I didn't really look at what it did."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Gotta move along."

X is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at X and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her.

X asks, "Oh hi. First, can we have a chance to not have our confidence be bottomed out if we get resurrected? Please? Maybe if we're married to the Cleric, not that I'm biased. Secondly, can you define "meh" as it pertains to what our grandfathered skills will be? This is the biggest concern I have with the new system. Thirdly, skulk currently prevents us from being located, can this stay?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "I'll come back if you had more questions."

GG removes his name from the speaker's list.

[[Ricinus]] says, "I don't mind taking a look at some of the really down sides to confidence."

X says, "I love you a little. Don't tell XXXXX."

[[Ricinus]] says, "It's not part of things currently, but I'll add it to the list to make it a bit friendlier if it makes sense to do so."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Hehe."

[[Ricinus]] says, "My guess with grandfathering is that it will be on par with what Barbs got."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I doubt we could justify doing anything different."

X nods.

[[Ricinus]] says, "So, I'd want the abilities to reach max potency at lower levels, and have ways to reduce things a bit."

[[Ricinus]] says, "So maybe at the higher end of the difficulty range you'd be more maxing out duration rather than potency."

O adds his name to the speaker's list.

[[Ricinus]] says, "And you could get to that higher range quicker when sitting, or when using the delay option."

AA is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at AA and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

AA says, "Will any totally new khri be added? also..this might be a bit off the topic..but will be seeing any skill changes in the future of thief 3.0."

AA says, "By skill I mean abilities, ect."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Well, there's certainly khri with the same names and brand new abilities on the charts there."

I removes his name from the speaker's list.

[[Ricinus]] says, "But I didn't want new names, cause I didn't want to change EVERYTHING."

AA says, "I mean anything radically new, like something to help survival skills, climbing, whatever."

[[Ricinus]] says, "As far as brand new stuff, I don't know."

[[Ricinus]] chuckles.

[[Ricinus]] says, "And you have tons of survival skill helpers in there."

AA nods to [[Ricinus]].

[[Ricinus]] says, "If anything new comes along after this I'd say it would be more tie-ins to Backstab related attacks."

[[Ricinus]] says, "To give you more options to training that skill."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Backstab would need more work than khri at that point."

AA says, "Its that its hard to train, but anything helps."

T is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at T and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

T says, "I don't like needing a combo to get my melee offense boost. I've never used combos because I like mixing up different khri without wasting concentration on khri that I don't need. Now I'll have to use a combo with khri that I wouldn't otherwise be using just to get the added effect."

T says, "Was about to say that before you silenced us again."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ok, I'll take that into consideration."

T says, "Will a method for unlearning khri be introduced? It was supposed to happen with the last rewrite, just wondering if you can manage to work it into this one so we don't have to wait until the next rewrite to ask again."

[[Ricinus]] says, "That's a valid point."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I'll look into a unlearning mechanic as well."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Won't be too much since I'll have a preview system and such to do."

T asks, "Lastly, Will ambushes be switching to debilitation or will the work like they do now and we'll just have to use the new debilitating khri to train?"

A is next.

[[Ricinus]] says, "They'll mostly be debilitation."

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at A and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

A whistles a merry tune.

[[Ricinus]] says, "Stupid lag."

A says, "I see how you are."

A laughs!

[[Ricinus]] says, "Hi."

A says, "I have a few questions for a friend who got frustrated and left."

A says, "They are concerned that they've already been hit quite hard with the last changes, and were down a LOT of TDPs."

P adds his name to the speaker's list.

A says, "Now, you are re-doing khri again."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Being grandfathered will guarantee to catch them up on TDPs at least somewhat."

A says, "We are losing khri, again."

A says, "They are caught up."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Well, then get ahead."

A says, "Their concern is, what are we GETTING aside from the rewrite."

[[Ricinus]] asks, "Aside from the ton of abilities on the charts that are brand new?"

A says, "I see things being removed, and some things being moved around."

A says, "And a lot of things we already have."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Look again and get back to me."

Y is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at Y and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her.

Y says, "My concern is twofold. first question- will these changes mean we have to take the grand tour of guildhalls yet again to reget all our khri, or will the ones we have still be functional, except new functions."

Cadice raises her arms, causing the ground to tremble and the sky to arc with lightning in a display that sends shivers of fear through your soul. A dark portal opens before Cadice, who calmly steps through it just as it snaps shut.

Y says, "Secondly is the matter of teaching of magic skills. For many, they pretend to be mages, will something be added so we can teach the skills if wearing correct pretned title."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I'm hoping for a wipe, a preview, and then yes, you'll need to hump around after the preview and pick the ones you want."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I wouldn't want folks to be stuck with one that was totally changed."

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at OO and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

OO says, "Just wanted to say my favorite part of steady is the balance correction, and I hope that makes a return in some form."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Hmm, I didn't have that in my notes."

[[Ricinus]] says, "That's more of an oversight than an omission."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I'll see about getting it popped back in."

O is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at O and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

O says, "Will the delay/sit option for starting khri, jsut be a way to make them stronger while ar low magic skill, and becoem irrelevant at higher skill? If not, then it seems like you are really giving us two options an nucance way to get full power by sitting/delaying or we can take reduced power and have it work like present..."

O says, "Some ugly typnig there sorry."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Yeah, at higher skill I doubt anyone would use the sit/delay."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Except maybe for some of the highest tier khri."

O says, "Got it."

GG is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at GG and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

GG asks, "I know you said ambushes will be mostly debilitation. Does that mean debil is what determines their effectiveness? Will backstabbing play a role?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "In some cases I'm thinking it will be BS and Debilitation, some might be LT and Debilitation."

GG nods.

[[Ricinus]] says, "I won't say which the new one will be."

P is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at P and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

P says, "First I just want to throw out to the Non-forums reading people, the term Supernatural Skillset for the Magical Skillset, might help with understanding. Now more to my question, on the forums it has been brought up to change the skillnames, so that they are less vague, more focused, line-up better with abilities. I'm not for lossing Backstab, however it's already fairly focused, is this something you want to look at somewhat soon, or is this just not on the periperial at all? Also I have some ideas for change in the backstab ability."

[[Ricinus]] says, "If we were at the point to fleshing out backstab or whatever you'd want to call it with new ways to use and train it, yes. For right now, it's not something I'm looking at."

P nods to [[Ricinus]].

P says, "That's all."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And ideas are always good, stick them in the Thief forums, or email them to me."

Z is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at Z and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

Z says, "[[Ricinus]], I appreciate the time and effort you're putting into the Guild. I know a lot of people dislike change, but without change, things would get dull and stagnant."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And you'd get beat up by mages."

Z says, "My question is, is there a timeframe when these changes will happen? I'm looking forward to it."

[[Ricinus]] says, "We're at 0% done as of today."

Z says, "Thank you."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The important step of seeing where most of you players are at on these ideas is going to take at least a few days, maybe a week."

[[Ricinus]] says, "As far as coding goes..."

Z says, "I feel our abilities are lackluster now, so any improvements are welcome."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Most of the ability stuff I'm completely used to from all the spells I worked on, so a few weeks, plus a few weeks for the backend stuff."

[[Ricinus]] says, "So lets say soon."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The top secret project will take the longest."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I can't beleive no one asked about that yet."

GG is next.

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at GG and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.

GG says, "Sorry. Had another question about ambushes. Will using the ambushes at level be more difficult than they are now? It seems basing their effectiveness on a a tert skillset will make using them alot more difficult."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Thats a good reason for BS to be in the mix."

[[Ricinus]] says, "There will certainly be a lot of balancing the numbers for this sort of thing."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I practically guarantee that when released, there will be issues like this for some people, and they will be resolved quickly, but then cause a different issue."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Cause that's how things go."

[[Ricinus]] points a speaker's staff at I and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her.

I curtly asks [[Ricinus]], "What's the top secret project?"

[[Ricinus]] cackles!

[[Ricinus]] says, "A project that I don't know if I can get to work, but if I do it will be hellaawesome."

[[Ricinus]] says, "If I can't get it to work, I don't want you to think I failed you."

[[Ricinus]] says, "So I'll replace it with something less cool and pretend it was that all along."

[[Ricinus]] exclaims, "No more questions!"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Cause the list is empty."

II says, "I just got here.."

[[Ricinus]] says, "So it's loud here again."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Well, you people did all sit through a really boring meeting with me."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Here's a hint, it's not a place you'd normally go to get abilities."

W asks, "Happen to want to mention the circle req?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "60."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I can't beleive no one commented on ambush clout either."

GG asks, "How is that gonna work?"

BB asks, "So is slash 'fixed'?"

BB says, "Cause it still seems pretty broke."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I was told people would be mad about that one, but I liked it."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The new plan for Clout."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And no, slash is still broken, but I should have the fix in later tonight."

[[Ricinus]] says, "New clout being the anti-mage ambush."

HH asks, "I don't see any buffs against all the insane cleric spells, I see we lose skill bonuses to stat bonuses and the ambushes are going to be tertiary skillset?"

GG asks, "Does the slash fix include looking at the experience awarded?"

HH asks, "Did someone answer my question? Or I'm just getting ignored?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Yeah, they're my charts, and they're just a very precursory idea of abilities anyways."

[[Ricinus]] says to HH, "What question."

FF asks, "Concentration de-buff was the answer, was it not?"

HH says, "Oh I thought that was is way of saying he didn't think it answerable."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I'd start with ambush clout on a cleric."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Then shoot him repeatedly in the face with arrows."

[[Ricinus]] says, "There's things going on with magic in general that should tone down the casters."

HH says, "And can't fire arrows when the stun from not getting to melee is letting their fire eat our legs out."

[[Ricinus]] says, "The whole balancing act with everything continues to be tugged at."

Y says, "I just want to be able to teach magic and stuff."

II says, "Well.. some at least."

HH asks, "And I came late, so I don't want to be reduntant... BUT are you grandfathering those magic skills like you did for barbs?"

U says, "How would we teach magic when we don't know magic? That's some serious BS in BS going on."
nod megan
FF nods to HH.

BB nods to HH.

HH says, "Thank you."

Y says, "I know plenty already."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Yeah, the grandfathering should be the same if I had to guess."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And you also missed the beginning where it's very important to keep in mind that this is just discussion about possibilities not things set in stone."

JJ asks, "Ok so i have to wait 20 seconds before my khri starts to work?"

[[Ricinus]] grins.

[[Ricinus]] says, "Nope, don't have to wait."

[[Ricinus]] says, "And also to give you a new toy to play with."

B exclaims, "Thanks [[Ricinus]]!"

FF nods in agreement.

B waves.

V asks [[Ricinus]], "So your not going to hint at all to the top secret idea?"

I hesitantly says to [[Ricinus]], "Does it involve thugs? I like having muscle."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Hang on, I got a good hint... one moment."

BB asks, "So new khri will be like concentration using cyclics then, we can concieveably keep them up forever, right?"

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ok, here's the hint."

[[Ricinus]] says, "I saw Kurt Russel do it in a movie."

[[Ricinus]] says, "Ok, I'll be over by the gate in case anyone else is stuck here."

[[Ricinus]] waves.

GameMaster [[Ricinus]] went through a large stone archway.
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