Post:Log, mini-meeting - 1/12/2009 - 1:31:49

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Log, mini-meeting · on 1/12/2009 1:31:49 AM 2646
**Note - I will be asking if anyone has bard stuff ready to come out. Forgot to note that on my list.

Michie asks, "Enchantes, instrument creation, and songbirds or pets of some kind?"
You say, "Since becoming advocate, I'm responsible for - yes, some in the works right now; not yet, sorry; somewhere in some misty void."
Michie asks you, " In that order, too, eh? Working on enchantes, no creation yet, and songbirds are way down on the list of stuff to deal with?"
You say, "I think they were looking at trying to standardize some stuff."
You say, "In that order. Songbirds were definitely on the list I submitted."
You say, "A lot has happened since then. I should ask where that is now."

((Note - As best I understand it, pets as discussed at that time are not happening; this doesn't mean Bards will not have songbirds, but that it won't be part of a big overall guild-based pets system))

Kristov says, "I was a bit miffed there weren't more instruments at the fest"
You say, "I'd imagine you'll see more expansion of things folks will have there over the years."

You say, "Since becoming advocate, I've taken on the role of guru - because advocate IS a combo of the old liaison and guru positions."
You say, "But anyways, I have to try to figure out where we're going."

Jycanth asks, "Multiple enchantes for the win?"

Michie asks, "Can we have a way to snapcast enchantes?"
You say, "Snapcast enchantes, probably not - development of screams to hold that role, much more likely."

Michie asks, "Being able to prep an enchante invisibly?"
Jycanth says, "Like hiding spell preps"
Nilme says, "singing under your breath or something"
You say, "So inviso/hidden enchante prep..."
You say, "We can look into a hidden/mumbled type of prep for enchantes."
You say, "Seems reasonable to me."
Jycanth says, "On that note, might be nice if piercing whistle could be directed at players"
You say, "That said, understand that we don't develop FOR PVP - but that wait for an enchante can be just as deadly with critters as with people."

Michie says, "I don't do pvp, hope I never do, but ... the chance of the enchante going off even when stunned is very nice."
You say, "I dunno who to thank, but I have a short list of probables on that."

You ask, "Anything else?"
You say, "And if you wanna think about it, feel free to email me later. No big deal."

Nilme asks, "is there a way to extend our singing range?"
You ask, "Extend how far? Multiple rooms?"
Nilme says, "I meant from alto to soprano."
Jycanth asks, "Resolve multiple rooms?"
You exclaim, "Oh!"
Nilme says, "To be able to sing in multiple ranges"
You say, "That's been talked about for quite a while, and is something we do want to do."
You say, "However."
You say, "It actually involves moving vocal range to the character manager, letting everyone have one (thieves who use bards as their pretend can thank us later), and then doing multiple range for bards."
Jycanth says, "Maybe make vocal ranges an available shift for Empaths."
You say, "It would have to undergo that change first."
Michie says, "Thats a great idea"
Nilme says, "ohh. i was thinking syntax like if you have X amount of vocals you could sing soprano whatever verse"
You say, "Empaths shift features. Voice range is not stored that way - it's stored along with something else."
Jycanth says, "Its reasonable, but coding difficulties, no doubt."
You say, "So once it would be moved to features (i.e. into the character manager, with the changes to where/how it's stored), THEN we could look at that."
Jycanth says, "Change it to be chosen in the CM, allow everyone to pick once the change is put in, then add it to Empath shifts."
Kristov says, "well that didn't sound like a coding problem is all"
You say, "Heh. It's coding, because it's coded to store in a bard-only location."
Kristov says, "gotcha"
You say, "And so it'd have to be coded into features."
Jycanth says, "Maybe a pseudo single thing shift type ability for Bards to train people on their voices."
You ask, "You mean bards teaching others to expand vocal range?"
Jycanth says, "Thats debateable, mostly just other Bards."
You ask, "Ah. okay, being perhaps a bard-teach-bard thing?"
Nilme says, "When you are trained in singing, it occurs naturally."
Jycanth says, "Might be easier, none of that, but they don't even have a spot for that issues"
You say, "We can go either way, NPC taught or PC taught."
Jycanth says, "I think PC taught would be more fun."
You say, "But regardless, we have to change how vocal range is done first."

Michie says, "Where does changing our vocal ability come in the scheme of things? For me, I'd rather have new enchantes and kick[***] abilities before being able to change my voice.."
Kristov asks, "It's gotta start somewhere eh?"
You say, "Well, there's big things and small things."
Jycanth says, "For me its screams, enchantes, and bluffs please."
Michie says, "Not that the voice changing isn't a good and valid thought. If it was easy."
Nilme says, "perhaps it would lead to a new enchante where that skill would be required. an enchante not every bard would have until they got enough experience and went through the class/quest, etc."
You say, "I mean, where's a new bard-only merchant in all of that? Nowhere, but it's something that can be done while we steer toward the other stuff."
You say, "Nifty thought."
You say, "And really, it's something we need to look at anyhow -"
You say, "Since it's gone all wonky on us before and had folks losing their original vocal range."
Michie says, "long as it doesn't make enchantes or screams wonky because it tied in somewhere else."
You say, "That would be part of the process of moving it - to redirect things and check to see how badly it would bork stuff."

Nilme says, "Still.... having some sort of a quest or effort in order to achieve added skill is a lot of fun. Even if it is just an added bonus to vocal ability or something."
You say, "Quests are something coming anyhow."
You say, "Because they can be fun, as long as they aren't BoozeQuest."

Michie asks you, " More Voice Throws?"
You say, "Can see."
Michie says to Jycanth, " Making fam's talk to their owners"
You say, "I'd love to be watching the first time that would happen."
You say, "They'd probably think a GM was messing with them, if they didn't know it was a do-able VT."

Michie asks you, " What about this... I've RP'd for years, that I get drunk in the taverns and inns and write my songs on the bottoms of the tables, could have have songs by bards of certain (or uncertain) reknown written on the bottom of tables, or just scratchings with a name scratched in next to it?"
You ask, "You want graffiti?"
Michie asks, "I drink, get drunk, fall down, write songs.. don't expect me to pull myself up and write on paper, do ya?"
You say, "That's something to pass on to folks who own taverns and such where things like that could happen."
Kristov says, "you should scrawl on the floorboars then"
Kristov says, "at least they can cover that up with sawdust"
Michie says, "I'll mention it to the first pub owner I meet."
Nilme says, "even if it was temporary and on top of the tables and then a barmaid came by and wiped it off"
Nilme says, "to the heartwrenching dismay of the bard."
Nilme says, "but have it last for a day or something"
Kristov says, "I would like to see more places for the rumor system"
Michie says, "Oh no.. we could have scratchings by bards who's passed out of our lives to honor and remember them, too."
Nilme exclaims, "and better rumors!"
Nilme says to Michie, "That is true."
Jycanth says, "Thoughts a bit..."
Nilme says, "That would be a great way to memorialize them."
Michie says, "And some of us nobody has ever heard of"
Nilme says, "You could make it "read tabletop""
Nilme says, "and then you'd see everything that was written."
Michie says, "Okay okay, so I want to be memorialized, I don't expect stone, wood would be just fine."
Michie says, "I think it would be nice RP"

Nilme says, "It would be nice to have new scroll songs by more modern bards."
Nilme says, "The most recent addition I know of was one by Daerlynn."
You say, "shavay has one as well."
You say, "Dunno how much more recent there have been..."
Nilme says, "The chance to submit them to a guildleader would be nice. Like giving a rumour and then the guildleader could decide if it went on a scroll"
You say, "Hm. Most scroll songs are long enough that you wouldn't wanna do it that way."
Nilme says, "Hrm.... good point."
You say, "But, we're certainly still open to submissions."
You say, "Send 'em my way, by all means."

Kristov says, "I haven't heard any announcements I've just heard suggestions...suggestions that have been on the boards."
Kristov says, "well cept for table reading"
You say, "Not really many announcements I have to make right now - because a lot of development is so spread out."
You say, "And believe me, that's a GOOD thing."
You say, "It means more folks willing and able to code bard stuff."
Kristov asks, "Any thinking been done on our 100th circle ability?"
You say, "Thinking, yes. Conclusions, no."
You say, "I really, really really, REALLY need to get a chance to chat with Dart on what's possible."
You say, "I can code a little, but nothing like that."
Kristov says, "well we are really lucky to have you and Dart as spokespeople for our guild"
You say, "we're in much better shape than when I was hired on, believe me."

You ask, "So then - anything else this evening?"
Jycanth asks, "Does bluff dodge and scream defiance last longer with skill?" You say, "You know, that, I dunno."
Jycanth says, "It prolly does, just curious."
Kristov says, "well I did have a question about bardic enchantes and WvW"
You say, "Oo. Look who's in..."
You say, "One sec, before you ask..."

[[Lo, the cavalry arriveth!]]

Dartenian casually observes the area.
Dartenian exclaims, "Ack! I'm surrounded by Bards again!"
You ask, "Okay, bluff dodge and defiant scream?"
You say, "And welcome aboard."
Dartenian says, "Okay, lemmee think."

Dartenian says, "Bluff Dodge is a straight skill debuff on all enemies that fall for it. Pretty much a static ability."
Jycanth asks, "So the duration is fixed?"
Dartenian says, "However, it's a percent debuff, so the better your enemy, the better your bluff."
Dartenian says, "Lemmee double check."
Dartenian says, "But I think so."
Jycanth says, "It would be nice if it scaled with skill, but it'll do either way."
Dartenian says, "Okay, it's contested. The better your win, the longer it lasts."
Kristov says, "there ya go"
Kristov asks, "what skill is it?"
Jycanth asks, "What skills are involved? Vocals and music?"
Jycanth asks, "PAFO?"
Jycanth says, "I'm just happy with the first answer."
Dartenian says, "I think in this case it's PAFO, yeah."
Dartenian says, "Mostly because I didn't write it, so I'd have to dig to be sure."
Dartenian says, "I know it's both one skill on each side, modified by stats."
Dartenian says, "actually, I can tell you that it's Music Theory as the bard skill."
Dartenian says, "But I'm not gonna tell what that's contested against."
Jycanth says, "Good enough for me."

Kristov asks, "I know charisma increases the effectiveness of our enchantes but does it play any additional part in WvW contests?"
Dartenian says, "Since WvW contests are primarily stat vs stat, yes."
Dartenian says, "Charisma is one of the contested stats on both sides, if I remember right."
Kristov asks, "so each class doesn't use the same stats in a WvW contest?"
Kristov says, "or the same weight to each stat"
Dartenian says, "WvW is always the same stats, regardless of guild."
Kristov says, "er class = profession"
Dartenian says, "Which is why I keep pounding people on the boards who insist charisma is useless."
Dartenian says, "Sure, it's useless, if you don't mind being a drooling vegetable after being mental blasted."
Kristov says, "Plenty of people think int and disc are weighted more than charisma"
Dartenian says, "In some contests that's true. In others its the other way around."
Dartenian says, "But..."
Dartenian says, "When we talk about weighted in stat contests, we aren't usually talking about much."
Dartenian says, "Raising your intelligence or discipline higher at the expense of charisma is NOT going to make you better at WvW."
Dartenian says, "If you are talking about cost analysis."
Kristov asks, "so for bardic enchantes the primary stat we use in WvW is charisma? or is it more effective to keep them balanced?"
Dartenian says, "For will vs will, you are best keeping Int + Disc + Chr all relatively balanced, yes."
Dartenian says, "You could probably let charisma trail a bit, but I wouldn't recommend letting it trail behind much."
Dartenian says, "You'll be shooting yourself in the foot if you do."
Kristov says, "I'm glad I got verification of that I been doubting people who claims all bards need is Charisma"
Dartenian says, "Let me put it this way. I'm the Development Manager for DR now."
Jycanth says, "If you're charismatic enough, you can usually convince your opponent to support you instead."
Dartenian says, "I'm firmly of the opinion that ignoring ANY stat should come at a cost."
Dartenian says, "Regarldless of guild."
Kristov says, "Except strength"
Dartenian says, "So if anyone says, "You only need X skill, or you don't need Y skill...""
Dartenian says, "They are probably very wrong, and if they aren't, they will be soon enough."
Dartenian says, "That's not to say everyone should have balanced stats by a longshot."
Dartenian says, "Just that every choice should be just that; a choice."
Dartenian says, "With pros and cons to go with it."

Dartenian exclaims, "And yes, that includes strength. No ignory the strengthy!"
Kristov asks, "ooh, are you gonna make strength useful soon?"
Dartenian says, "It's more useful than people think already."
Jycanth says, "Strength helps with swimming at least..."
Dartenian says, "I had no idea how useful until I did some code diving."
Dartenian says, "For example, the higher your strength, the better your defenses about 99.9% of the time."
Olyandir says, "I know a gortog pally who only has strength. And I mean that. It is quite effective"
Kristov says, "really, I thought it just effected shield"
Dartenian says, "I'll give you a hint. It effects Burden. Burden has huge impact on evasion."
Kristov says, "I don't have burden"
Dartenian says, "Guess again."
Kristov says, "My info says Burden: None"
Dartenian says, "Yep, but that's a range."
Kristov says, "I'm kidding I get it"
Dartenian says, "I don't wanna say how much, but let's just say even "none" can be a substantial penalty to evasion."
Dartenian says, "The bigger you make that range, the better off you are."
Olyandir asks, "We're talking the upper reaches of "none" before it becomes "light"?"
Dartenian says, "To put it in perspective, I'm fairly sure my own bard is taking about 25-30 ranks penalty to evasion just from burden, and he has none too."

Jycanth asks, "Is there much difference between only armor vs armor and clothing?"
You say, "Depends on the clothing."
Dartenian says, "It's purely weight and bulk you are carrying."
Dartenian says, "And whether you are wearing it or not."
Dartenian says, "But even at the low end of none you'll take a penalty."
You say, "I remember my husband freaking out when he weighed an item his character was wearing, and it was a 40 pound sundress..."
You say, "He ditched it fast."

Olyandir says, "So, in essence, you're always taking a penalty just for having weight on you"
Dartenian says, "Why is your husband wearing a sundress."
Dartenian says, "Almost always, yeah."
You say, "It was one from a goblin chest or some such, anyhow."
You say, "His female Gnome character."

Dartenian says, "I'm looking at changing that, though."
Dartenian says, "Pretty much a single arrow will give most players a burden penalty to defense."
Dartenian exclaims, "So lodge all the arrows you can in your enemy!"
Dartenian says, "It's not horrible if you can stay at none, but it's a lot worse than I imagined."
Dartenian says, "Especially when put in with all the other defense penalties. It's no wonder offense is so superior."
Dartenian says, "Everything in the game penalizes defense."

Kristov says, "I have a question about how harmony works"
Dartenian says, "Go for it."
Kristov says, "Does it decrease the difficulty of incoming attacks or boost our actual skill. It seems to me like I'm not learning as fast as I do with it up than I do with it off"
Dartenian says, "It strictly boosts the bard. All offensive and defensive skills."
Dartenian says, "Plus MO and balance."

Kristov asks, "And we learn according to the effective ranks or actual ranks?"
Kristov says, "I guess I should have asked that originally"
Dartenian says, "Normally, actual ranks. But there's undoubtedly still things out there that use effective."
Kristov asks, "but harmony isn't one of them?"
Dartenian says, "Well, if yo uare talking about learning combat skills..."
Kristov says, "Like Parry and shield"
Dartenian says, "You learn those based on the combat system. Harmony has nothign at all to do with it."
Kristov says, "mostly parry I've noticed"
Kristov asks, "well it increases our defensive skills like parry and shield right?"
Kristov says, "and evasion"
Dartenian says, "Right. But what you learn is based strictly on the combat mechanics."
Dartenian says, "So sure, it's possible combat is using effective, not base. But if that's true, ALL boosters in the game would be affected equally."
Dartenian says, "Not just Harmony."
Dartenian says, "If you are learning less defenses with Harmony up, it's probably because it's shifting a single skill just enough that the others aren't being contested."
Dartenian says, "For example, if its pushing your balance and evasion up high enough, that may be making it so you don't NEED to parry, so you won't learn parry as well."
Dartenian says, "Defenses are just like that."
Jycanth says, "If you change your stances, that'll probably change."
Dartenian says, "I have to do that a lot these days."
Dartenian mutters cryptically to himself.
Kristov says, "I haven't done much testing I've just noticed it when eeking out those last few ranks of parry before moving on to something harder it seems to take longer."
Kristov says, "okay I can see what you mean"
Dartenian says, "You may be getting near the cap, or you may be getting just too good at evading so parry isn't kicking in as much."
Kristov says, "Yeah i've been playing with stance too"
Kristov says, "I just said forget it and moved on to bigger and better"
Dartenian says, "Sometimes that's the best approach."
Dartenian says, "I did that myself today, in fact."
Dartenian exclaims, "I'm getting beat up, but I'm learning again!"
Kristov says, "Yeah I die a few times and then find my rythm"

You ask, "Anything else for Dart, while he's here?"
Eoworfinia asks, "are Joel Moradu ever gonna come back? or only after they are to easy for me?"
Dartenian says, "After they are too easy for you, definitely."
Dartenian says, "We're reviewing ALL the hunting areas in teh game right now. We'll get there."
Eoworfinia says, "its just I like hunting near my house and those things were fun till some warmie had to go and abuse a bug"
Dartenian says, "Well, there was a lot more to it than that."
Jycanth says to Eoworfinia, "Backtrain, just to spite him."
Dartenian says, "I think you folks are in for some major surprises very soon."
Kristov says, "Need more stuff around crossing"
Dartenian asks, "I've already added three new critters around Crossing this past 2 weeks already. What more ya want?"
Olyandir says, "Giant wasps"
Kristov asks, "what critters?"
Olyandir says, "My little one just met them. Thought it was an invasion"
Dartenian says, "It was, sorta."
Dartenian says, "But it's a permanent invasion."
Kristov says, "nee more mid ranged stuff. I'm stuck out on the islands"
Olyandir asks, "I like 'em. What other critters are out there?"
Dartenian says, "Brown spiders and goblin zombies for now."
Dartenian says, "I've got 2-3 more coming very very soon."
Dartenian says, "Just waiting on the event team."

Dartenian asks, "Next question?"
You ask, "How are targeted enchantes coming?"
You say, "Since that was asked earlier."
Kristov says, "I mean Pyre is fun and all and I've been arrested for it plenty of times, but..."
Dartenian says, "I'm still trying to figure out HOW to do Madmen. Given that it lingers without the bard around, it's kind hard to have it contest the skill (let alone teach the skill) of someone who may be a province away, or even offline."
Dartenian says, "Still hoping to get Breath of Storms done, but far too many other things backed up right now."
Dartenian says, "I can say we have another enchante coming out...soon."
Kristov says, "focus on the pulses, that way latent madness doesn't effect anything"
Dartenian says, "It's in the final stages, and it's one of the top three requests, easily."
Dartenian says, "We're still getting a lot of volunteer GM help for enchantes. Surprisingly enough."
Jycanth says, "Thats good, gives us some nice variety."
You say, "It's good, b/c it means we've moved FAR away from the days of only the two bard people doing enchantes, or even knowing how to touch them."
Dartenian says, "So far I think it's gone well. Joy, Lullaby, Madmen all written by nonbards."
You say, "Which means a lot more continuity of development assured regardless of staff changes."
Dartenian says, "Yep."
Dartenian says, "So we can quit now."
You say, "Nah, not ready to yet."
Dartenian says, "Me either."
You say, "But it is nice to know that if I would need to..."
Kristov says, "No we love having Dart and Vael involved with the Bards"
Dartenian says, "We're the crazy ones."
Kristov says, "Right, yer perfect for us"
Jycanth says, "We likes crazy."
You say, "Eh, we're all crazy up here. REquirement of hire."
Dartenian says, "This is true."
Olyandir says, "My mama always said it's normal to be crazy and crazy to be normal"
Eoworfinia says, "now wait, I was told insanity was considered on the job training for GM's"

You say, "Okay, so everyone go post that we said that the 100th circle ability will be a diva tantrum thing..."
Eoworfinia says, "diva tantrum" Eoworfinia says, "I already do that" You say, "See, but this will be formalized."
Dartenian says, "In other news, more recall history locations coming."
Dartenian says, "Fairly soon."
Dartenian says, "We need to get some for P5 badly."
Eoworfinia says, "we also need a bartender who will give us rumor info there"
Eoworfinia says, "and some bard recalls"

Kristov asks, "Lore split coming soon?"
Kristov asks, "or simu soon?"
You say, "Nooo idea."
You peer quizzically at Dartenian.
Dartenian says, "Coming, but can't say how soon."

Olyandir says, "Outside of the bard guild, messaging for when we sign out or special verbs to leave a room would be neat"
You ask, "Didn't the spider sell login/logout custom messages?"
Jycanth says, "But not everyone went, yanno."
Olyandir says, "Missed it"
You say, "I think folks might see it come up offered outside of there sometime, too - now that we've figured out how to do it, you know."
Jycanth says, "Just a matter of time"
Jycanth says, "Maybe a shop, like in Throne for the spell preps."
Kristov says, "I want one for when I enter and leave a room"
You say, "I doubt they'd do it in a 24/7 shop."
Jycanth says, "Some people have those..."
Jycanth says, "Not quite sure the details on that though"
Jycanth says, "Seen marching, and sauntering..."
You say, "Well, I doubt we all want to dance spritely from room to room..."
Jycanth says, "Yeah, but thats what options are for."
Kristov says, "I might"
You say, "But we could see what was involved in the marching/slinking/etc., and see if we can add options."
Kristov says, "Ya know...for a very short while..."

Jycanth says, "Oh lets test something"
Jycanth says, "My friend was complaining about thump and voice throw, someone thump me"
thump jycanth
With the speed of a striking snake, you thump Jycanth in the neck with the edge of your flattened palm striking him in the vocal cords. Jycanth clutches his throat, wheezing pathetically.

Kristov exclaims, "Bippity boppity boo!"
Odd, Kristov's lips didn't seem to move.
You notice Jycanth's lips move slightly.

You say to Jycanth, "Yep, that's weird."

Kristov asks, "did I just say something?"
Kristov blinks.

Kristov says, "Jycanth is demonstrating how he can throw his voice while thumped, neat."
Odd, Kristov's lips didn't seem to move.
You notice Jycanth's lips move slightly.

Kristov asks, "So Kristov why did Vael thump Jycanth?"
Jycanth says, "I asked her to."
Kristov says, "apparently I don't know"
You say, "I wouldn't have done it had he not asked."


This message was originally posted in The Bards (21) \ Bard-Related Events (10), by DR-VAELDRIIL on the forums.