Magic 3.1 comments

Created at the request of GM Kodius as a page to collect comments on Magic 3.1. This is not an official page on which to report bugs; it is intended to be a central list for the convenience of GM staff and the DR community. To report a bug, please ASSIST or use the BUG command in-game, or post on the appropriate DR message board.

When you make an entry below, please include a timestamp --~~~~ (the squiggly lines button in the command bar just above the edit window) just like you would on a talk page.

If/when an issue is resolved, please go back and strikethrough your entry by enclosing it with <s> and </s> to indicate the issue has been closed. Please keep the main page's list concise. Long discussions may go on the talk page.

• This page was last updated on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 at 9:44:01 PM GMT.

Bugs

This section is reserved exclusively for items that are mechanical defects in the magic systems. This includes typos and effect failures.

Bard

• The replacement effect of Misdirection is a problem, because of its strange nature as a combination buff/debuff. Discussed here and here.--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
• Pulse-to-group isn't working correctly. Individual details below:--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • RAGE: Behaves like group-cast buff (e.g. ES), but also ends if the other person leaves the room (but not the group).
  • DRUM: Same as RAGE.
  • REPR: Seems to be working correctly, including "cast self".
  • NAME: Closer to REPR, but it has some weird behavior: If Joe is joined with BerthaBard, Joe will see "BerthaBard's fearsome determination..." when it pulses to him. A little bit later, he'll see "Joe's fearsome determination...". A little bit after that, it will wear off. Then it will pulse back with "BerthaBard's fearsome determination...", and the whole cycle will repeat.--Antendren 17:48, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Can somebody verify that REPR is working correctly? --DR-GMSocharis 09:34, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
• Aewo's debuff to mana regen isn't working.--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Fixed --DR-GMSocharis 09:34, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
• DRUM isn't replace casting. A second cast of DRUM is simply ignored.--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
• RAGE has a number of frustrating issues: it doesn't buff thrown weapons; it doesn't buff both weapons when dual wielding; if you pull out a weapon and then put it away, it doesn't switch back to buffing brawling; it takes a while for the buff to switch. All of these could be resolved by just having it buff all the weapon skills all the time.--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
• RESO is really annoying in its current form: it only buffs one weapon at a time, and it's a pain to switch weapons with it. Also, please let it affect brawling gear.--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • RESO further - Specifically, requiring a second cast to remove the spell is silly. It would be so much better to use the same model the warrior mage spell ignite uses. The spell is tagged to the specific weapon, but the effect is tied to the bard so the bard can simply release it and cast on another weapon rather than requiring a silly intermediate step. --Elriic 20:14, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • I would prefer a reversion to the 3.0 model, so I could have it on multiple weapons. Unless Ignite allows that.--Antendren 02:24, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
• GJ gives relatively little exp (compared to HODI) even when using up all the caster's mana. It's also not well suited as an Intro spell, since most novices do not fight spellcasting monsters -- meanwhile, elder bards who might be using it regularly will not learn from it. --Eyuve 18:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
• PYRE teaches TM only about half as well as single casts of BOS. --Eyuve 18:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
  • This is by design. Cyclic TM is less accurate than other attacks, and the mana range can have a big impact too.
• NEXUS does not display duration and disappears when the Bard leaves the room (unlike Fissure in both cases). Intended? --Eyuve 08:26, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
• I could not get NEXUS to increase room mana even one level with two people in the room (25 mana cast, the max I could get at 284 Util). It would be nice if it had some minimum level of effectiveness so it could be used while alone. --Eyuve 08:30, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
• BOTF is not affecting people, neither in their regular mana regeneration nor by increasing attunement above max (as it used to). This was tested using both CAST and CAST AREA (with Area Casting feat). --Eyuve 08:55, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
• BOTF seems like it might require Area Casting. If so, messaging should be clear, as a regular CAST will show all people in the room the "pleasant buzzing in your nerves" message. Further, if it does require this feat, it's a little harsh for Bards. No other Bard spell requires it, and that effectively adds 2 slots to BOTF's cost (for Area Casting and its prereq, Augmentation Mastery). Additionally, BOTF by itself does not help the Bard, who has to spend attunement to use it. It exists solely to help others, and therefore requiring extra cost for it seems like a bit much. --Eyuve 08:55, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Cleric

• Because the stats used in the Benediction spell are outside cleric's SoI, our bonus drops from +15 for most mid and high level clerics in 3.0 to 10 or less even for clerics nearing the 150 mark. This isn't inherently a bad thing, but it does mean a pretty dramatic change from what we're used to. To achieve the +15 like what was in 3.0, a cleric would have to have 100 points, and to get above 15 (since it will be pointed out that there is no longer any cap at all), a cleric would need 107 points of str/stam/ref (the jump from 100 to 107 requires 10,815 TDPs, FYI). --Tenike 22:01, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
• Harm Horde moving up to 5 spell slots. I under stand it's a DFA, AoE spell so it should be expensive. But on the other hand, it's undead/evil/cursed only, so not really a PvP spell and it only gets one strike at missile range opponents where FoU gets two strikes at all targets. So for clearing out a room in an invasion, FoU is the better spell anyway, as only four opponents can get hit multiple times. --Tenike 22:01, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Moon Mage

• --Neither Tangled Fate nor Sever Thread can be cast on PCs. --Traim 03:05, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Paladin

• Sentinel's Resolve/Veteran Insight (BUG): Stance points from defending buff persist beyond the spell's duration until they are manually reallocated. --Warbrolus 14:43, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
• Righteous Wrath: Please consider adding even a half-strength thrown buff to RW. Training at-level thrown has become near impossible (mindstate does not improve beyond dabbling) against at-level creatures even with stuns (appraising "If you threw the <thrown weapon> at the enemy you are certain that it would train rather well"). Thrown is thematically relevant. --Warbrolus 14:43, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
• Shatter: Autostance has taken all the bite out of shatter. Shield skill debuff is not noticeable against even level creatures and players. Making it work more like khri eliminate, or adding an offense or stat debuff to shatter might make it more worthwhile. --Warbrolus 14:43, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
  • GM Kodius posted on the DR forums that shatter causes the target to behave as if (s)he is not wearing a shield, so even if the stance points are shifted and the user is wearing a shield, the spell will still take the full effect provided the SvS contest is won.--Warbrolus 14:32, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
• Rebuke: Wonderful spell against creatures, but does not knock down players who are even wearing a shield (mostly everyone) because of autostance. Please consider making the knockdown work on players regardless of whether they use shield or not. --Warbrolus 14:43, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Thief

• In 3.0, low-mid level thieves (~50ish) can utilize spar and skulk. As of every test tried in 3.1, standing, sitting, delayed, instant, they cannot use either. It appears that the magic "grandfathering" is simply not enough for low-to-mid level characters. Perhaps a sliding scale?. Right now, when 3.1 drops, those characters will be rendered very difficult to play. --Sneeky 20:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Having just restested in the test server, skulk is startable on delay while standing or sitting. Spar is startable instantly while sitting, and on delay while standing. This is not an optimal situation, but it is by far a better option than was previously available. --Sneeky 20:48, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Warrior Mage

• Y'ntrel Sechra is essentially useless once you have ~300 ranks of armor --Elriic 19:49, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • The effect of Y'ntrel is arguably not worth using before this point either, though the hindrance reduction from increased ranks does taper after ~300 --Greyfox 23:11, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

• At low levels (260 TM) Rimefang seems a particularly poor choice when compared to Fire Rain, though I've heard from others than they have no problems at higher levels. --Saragos

• Mantle of Flame does not apply a bonus to brawling, staves, polearms and perhaps other weapon skills. --Greyfox 23:05, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Note: This is likely intended - Mantle of Flame is not a weapon skill boost, it is an offensive accuracy boost. Its bonus to brawling is damage alone, not skill. --Starlear 08:34, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
    • In 3.1 it was changed to a skill boost, it shows in EXP mods for some weapons, but not the ones I listed and perhaps some I didn't have with me to check, you might be right about the brawling though! --Greyfox 22:00, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

• Fortress of Ice is still not available to be learned. --Greyfox 23:13, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

• Frostbite - After critters get knocked down, they immediately get back up again. It sort of defeats the purpose of the spell. --Elriic 21:43, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Mildly overstated issue, it would be nice for there to be RT associated, maybe when standing up, but the fatigue hit has been markedly effective in PvE at least. --Greyfox 19:40, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
    • I don't think its overstated in the slightest. A disabler which doesn't disable even in a PVE situation is a mistake. There should be at least a few seconds of RT. --Elriic 21:59, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

• Ethereal Fissure is messaging correctly, but does not seem to actually provide the additional mana(on behalf of another forum goer) --Greyfox 14:36, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

• Chain Lightning needs something to differentiate it from Shockwave (While Shockwave has the knockback and optional Flame Shockwave metaspell, they feel functionally identical, both hitting everything one time). --Starlear 08:34, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

• Ward Break feels useless compared to other dispels - it only removes a very small set of buffs. Generally the spells I'd want to remove with it are not effected by it. --Starlear 08:34, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Commentary

This area is reserved for commentary on various aspects of the 3.1 magic system. This is the area for commentary on things that are not technical flaws, such as power imbalances or opinions on usefulness.

KEEP IT CONSTRUCTIVE.

Bard

• Eye of Kertigen is useless.--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Specifically, several posters did not find a searching spell desirable without interaction with the targets. --Eyuve 18:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
  • EoK suggestions - Dedicated perception boost, room lighting feature, or allowing the caster to interact with revealed targets could make this spell more desirable.--Noopin 23:15, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • This spell could probably be improved but we won't hold up the 3.1 release for it. --DR-GMSocharis 09:41, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
• AoT - All languages are achieved at 40 mana, but the cap is 100.--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • The mana range could probably be improved but we won't hold up the 3.1 release for it. --DR-GMSocharis 09:41, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
• Some bards are finding that DEMA doesn't have a reliable effect on enemy balance.--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • I had another look at this and it's better than I thought initially. It lasts about 90 seconds, it's just that the critters I tried (leucros) seem to recover from the pulses remarkably quickly, so they are often still at decent balance at various times in that period. I'd have to do more serious long-term testing to see whether the spell is really useful. So far it seems okay (but not great). --Eyuve 08:01, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Delayed Issues

The GMs have indicated that some bugs are insufficiently problematic to delay the 3.1 roll out. This area will be a holding area for such issues. Players should only move issues here if a GM has explicitly indicated that the issue should be moved here.

General

• Sky giant's don't seem to be casting Lightning bolt any more. --Greyfox 23:24, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Looks like this has been the case since 3.0. Needs fixing, but it's not necessarily tied to 3.1. --DR-GMSocharis 03:06, 13 January 2014 (UTC)