Magic 3.1 comments

Created at the request of GM Kodius as a page to collect comments on Magic 3.1. This is not an official page on which to report bugs; it is intended to be a central list for the convenience of GM staff and the DR community. To report a bug, please ASSIST or use the BUG command in-game, or post on the appropriate DR message board.

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If/when an issue is resolved, please go back and strikethrough your entry by enclosing it with <s> and </s> to indicate the issue has been closed. Please keep the main page's list concise. Long discussions may go on the talk page.

• This page was last updated on Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 2:37:11 PM GMT.

Bugs

This section is reserved exclusively for items that are mechanical defects in the magic systems. This includes typos and effect failures.

General

• Symbiosis buffs persist even if you release the spell they were woven with.--Antendren 12:42, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
  • This one is challenging to fix and might not be done for 3.1 --DR-GMSocharis 23:55, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
• Typo: "Unfortunately, you did not uncover any new spells. However, your experimental program resulted in unparalelled practice, if nothing else." That should be "unparalleled".--Antendren 01:16, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
• Canceling a portion of research gives you full credit for that portion, as long as it's not the final portion.--Antendren 01:16, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
• Targets of AOE cyclics are knocked from hiding, even if the attack misses. Tested with ABAN, PYRE and Fire Rain.--Antendren 02:07, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
  • I can attest to this, being knocked out of hiding is not even a skill check in these situations. High pulse rate cyclic aoe are game breaking. --Raikage 20:27, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
• There's a rounding error in research times:

>research status
You have completed 98% of a project about the Resolve symbiosis.

>research symbiosis resolve 30
You realize that your project about the Resolve symbiosis only requires 7 more seconds of research, so you adjust your plans accordingly.
You start to research the Resolve symbiosis.

You make definite progress in your project about the Resolve symbiosis and decide to take a break. However, there is still more to learn before you arrive at a breakthrough.

>research status
You have completed 99% of a project about the Resolve symbiosis.

--Antendren 14:08, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

• • With a capped GAF, this bug makes me unable to complete a research project. At min cast, it's possible to finish.--Antendren 09:51, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
• Symbioses don't replace-cast.--Antendren 10:26, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
  • In fact, it seems that their durations run concurrently. I cast the resolve symbiosis repeatedly, then waited, and I got the ending message multiple times.--Antendren 10:43, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Bard

• If you do a strong cast of DRUM, then a weak cast, you get 3rd person messaging about yourself: "The rhythmic grace of Seldaren's swaying reminds you of your own movements."--Antendren 01:27, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
• DRUM does not behave like a pulse-to-group spell. Instead, it's behaving like a group-cast spell (e.g. Ethereal Shield) that ends prematurely if you leave the bard's room.--Antendren 01:38, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
• When PYRE targets a PC, the victim receives both 2nd and 3rd person messaging about themselves:

The flames land an extremely heavy hit to your left leg!
The flames land an extremely heavy hit to Seldaren's left leg!

The flame washes over you, but you are unburned.
The flames wash over Seldaren, but he is unburned.

--Antendren 01:49, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Cleric

• In a room with blinding mana, I can harness 165 mana straight from thin air in one pull, but I can't cast PoM without a focus. PoM's min prep is 150 mana. I know it's impractical that I'll ever need to cast a min-prep PoM without a focus, but theoretically it should be possible. --Tenike 03:14, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
• Soul Attrition is wonky and only sorta kinda working. With capped AUSP I have 72 charisma and cast it at 35 mana on two people one with 40 charisma and one with 15 charisma, neither had any buffs or wards active and SA and I ended up dying from spirit loss while they took no damage. I tried again shortly after and it was working normally, then after that it wasn't working again. --Tenike 03:14, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
• Targeting for AE (and possibly other spells) is wonky on hiders. I was targeting a thief with AE and then the target went into hiding. Even when she was out of hiding, I couldn't re-target, snapcast, or release the spell either. I had to wait for it to say "you lose your targeting pattern" (or whatever the specific messaging is) before I could re-target. --Tenike 03:14, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Moon Mage

• --Neither Tangled Fate nor Sever Thread can be cast on PCs. --Traim 03:05, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Paladin

• Rebuke: In instances where rebuke hits 6 times, the fifth and sixth casts both show as "The final wave..." Please follow this link to the DR forums for examples. --Warbrolus 19:29, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Ranger

• Bear Strength spell: No description when choosing from Paglar -- --Dragnldy 19:50, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
• Break Branch: Don't always get a message when the opponents stun wears off. Sometimes get 'shakes off the stun' but sometimes is silent. Makes it hard to do any timing tests. --Dragnldy 00:03, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Warrior Mage

• Fortress of Ice --Elriic 01:40, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
  • You also can gweth and use magic inside normally when a cleric outside the room casts Spite of Dergati (not sure if this is a bug or a benefit) --Elriic 01:40, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Can not be dispelled by either Meraud's Cry or Spite of Dergati (not sure if this is a bug or not) --Elriic 01:40, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
• Ethereal Fissure is messaging correctly, but does not seem to actually provide the additional mana(on behalf of another forum goer) --Greyfox 14:36, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Commentary

This area is reserved for commentary on various aspects of the 3.1 magic system. This is the area for commentary on things that are not technical flaws, such as power imbalances or opinions on usefulness.

KEEP IT CONSTRUCTIVE.

General

• The policy against crafting skill buffs (Kodius has suppressed the existing ones to a fraction of their value, and he intends to eventually change them away from skill buffs entirely) devalues Lore sphere of influence, since it means SOI is only important for 4 of the 9 skills in the Lore set. But if that is the plan moving forward, then Lore SOI needs to be recalculated with the recognition that (for this purpose) there are only 4 skills in the skillset.--Antendren 21:12, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Alternatively: Kodius has said he intends to release spells/abilities that support crafting in a non-skill-buff fashion (this is his plan for the existing crafting buffs). Making those respect SOI would solve the problem.--Antendren 21:21, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
• You should be able to choose spells by abbreviation, instead of needing to type out the full name.--Antendren 19:31, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
  • As of the latest refresh you can choose (at least warrior mage) by abbreviation. IE choose ES spell. --Elriic 22:20, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
  • You can also choose Bard spells by abbreviation (e.g. choose ECRY spell). --Eyuve 04:01, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
    • Yeah, turns out I was forgetting to put 'spell' at the end. It's been too long since I chose spells. Interestingly, you don't need to use 'spell' when choosing spells with multi-word names.--Antendren 10:22, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
• Starting a debilitation or TM cyclic shouldn't trigger the mechanics that prevent moving right after casting offensive spells.--Antendren 19:39, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
• Using cambrinth to power a cyclic requires active involvement and RT, so it should always teach at full strength. Right now, it's following the cyclic exp curve. Same for harnessed mana teaching Attunement.--Antendren 05:31, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
  • It's even doing this for Debilitation and TM cyclics.--Antendren 10:18, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
• It's possible to prep and cast while webbed. Please allow targeting as well.--Antendren 07:41, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
• There's no benefit for having Augmentation, Debilitation, Utility or Warding above 1000, since that's enough to cap all the spells. I was hoping symbioses would help with Augmentation, Utility and Warding, but they don't. You get the full benefit of your symbiosis from casting it with only one of your spells, which means you only need enough skill to cast it with your easiest spell. To avoid this, there would need to be a reason to want to attach symbioses to esoteric spells (other than learning). One way would be to allow characters to know more than 1 symbiosis at a time (but only attach 1 per spell). Alternatively, there could be some benefit to using the same symbiosis on multiple spells. None of this helps Debilitation, though. Maybe add some super-esoterics instead?--Antendren 15:11, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Bard

• Some bards are finding that DEMA doesn't have a reliable effect on enemy balance.--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • I had another look at this and it's better than I thought initially. It lasts about 90 seconds, it's just that the critters I tried (leucros) seem to recover from the pulses remarkably quickly, so they are often still at decent balance at various times in that period. I'd have to do more serious long-term testing to see whether the spell is really useful. So far it seems okay (but not great). --Eyuve 08:01, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
• PYRE teaches TM only about half as well as single casts of BOS. --Eyuve 18:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
  • This is by design. Cyclic TM is less accurate than other attacks, and the mana range can have a big impact too. --DR-GMSocharis 10:00, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
• It's traditional to rename BOTF with every magic revision. Meraud's Blessing -> Naga's Blessing -> BOTF. Maybe "Kiss of the Fae"?--Antendren 17:21, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
• I could not get NEXUS to increase room mana even one level with two people in the room (25 mana cast, the max I could get at 284 Util). It would be nice if it had some minimum level of effectiveness so it could be used while alone. --Eyuve 08:30, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
  • NEXUS is a spell designed to support group hunting. You'll see the biggest benefit when in the room with other players.--DR-GMSocharis 05:35, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
• RAGE: Behaves like group-cast buff (e.g. ES), but also ends if the other person leaves the room (but not the group).
  • RAGE is intended to be a group-cast buff --DR-GMSocharis 08:10, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
    • I think you're misunderstanding. I was using group-cast to describe spells like ES, which only care about grouping at cast time, in contrast with pulse-to-group spells, which is how RAGE is now behaving.--Antendren 10:16, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
• DRUM: Same as RAGE.
  • Addendum: Only the agility buff is group-casting. The locksmithing buff is remaining self-only.--Antendren 17:19, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
    • DRUM is intended to be group-cast. We couldn't duplicate the locksmithing issue being self-only. It seemed to pulse to group as well during our testing. --DR-GMSocharis 08:10, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
      • Yeah, I can't seem to duplicate the locksmithing thing. Just to confirm, you're saying DRUM isn't supposed to pulse to group the way it did in 3.0?--Antendren 10:16, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
• RESO is really annoying in its current form: it only buffs one weapon at a time, and it's a pain to switch weapons with it. Also, please let it affect brawling gear.--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • I would prefer a reversion to the 3.0 model, so I could have it on multiple weapons. Unless Ignite allows that.--Antendren 02:24, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
    • It doesn't work on brawling gear or multiple weapons --Antendren 21:42, 8 February 2014 (UTC) (revised --DR-GMSocharis 08:10, 10 February 2014 (UTC))
• Typo with AEWO: "Seldaren allows the notes of his song to fade quietly away, then erupts in a rapid, blaring fountain of music once more." Should be "erupt".--Antendren 16:51, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
  • No it shouldn't :) If you remove the first clause, the sentence is "Seldaren erupts in a rapid, blaring fountain..." which is correct english. --DR-GMSocharis 08:10, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
    • I suppose it's a question of what's erupting: me or the notes? I was interpreting it as "Seldaren allows the notes of his song to (fade quietly away, then erupt in a rapid blaring fountain of music once more)."--Antendren 10:16, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
• I was unable to detect any benefit from a second person with NEXUS. This is casting at cap, and testing in a variety of different rooms. (I am seeing a boost from a solo cast; I just don't see any additional boost from adding a second person.)--Antendren 16:45, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
  • NEXUS requires 2 more people in the room to start scaling up. --DR-GMSocharis 08:10, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
• ECRY has a duration like a ritual spell, despite being a normal spell.--Antendren 12:47, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
  • This is intentional. --DR-GMSocharis 08:10, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
• The buff aspect of MISD is self-only. I'm not sure, but I think it used to be group-cast.--Antendren 10:47, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
  • This spell has been intentionally set to do a self-only buff--DR-GMSocharis 08:10, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
  • In fact, using 'cast group' will cause your group mates to be hit with the debuff side, which is amusing but probably not intended behaviour.--Antendren 10:47, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Cleric

• Because the stats used in the Benediction spell are outside cleric's SoI, our bonus drops from +15 for most mid and high level clerics in 3.0 to 10 or less even for clerics nearing the 150 mark. This isn't inherently a bad thing, but it does mean a pretty dramatic change from what we're used to. To achieve the +15 like what was in 3.0, a cleric would have to have 100 points, and to get above 15 (since it will be pointed out that there is no longer any cap at all), a cleric would need 107 points of str/stam/ref (the jump from 100 to 107 requires 10,815 TDPs, FYI). --Tenike 22:01, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Basically, the buff in 3.0 is way overpowered. Strength, Stamina, and Reflex being buffed all at once is a really powerful combo, even at non-SOI rates. For a 3-slot spell, that's still pretty good. --DR-GMSocharis 05:11, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
• Other guilds are able to group-cast buff spells without feats, but clerics are required to get a ring of blessing scroll (and losing up 3 spell slots) to group-cast. WM's ES spell still only uses 1 slot, Paladins courage spell uses 2 slots (buffs 2 stats), and both of those are group-castable as they are. Additionally, in a year's worth of 3.0, I haven't found a single ring of blessing scroll, so it seems unreasonably prohibitively scarce. --Tenike 03:14, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
• Revelation will likely never be used except as a novelty to tell people what color their aura us. The perception buff is nice to have, but consider Revelation doesn't have a point or force-unhide feature whereas both HyH and Halo do. --Tenike 13:11, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Empath

Moon Mage

Necromancer

• VIVI is too expensive and too underwhelming compared to other TM options--Izawwlgood 23:10, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
• DEVO needs attention or tweaking--Izawwlgood 23:10, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Would you mind expanding on this? -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi^(talk) 23:18, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

• Poor options for training Warding aside from MAF--Izawwlgood 23:10, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Paladin

• Rebuke: Wonderful spell against creatures, but does not knock down players who are even wearing a shield (mostly everyone) because of autostance. Please consider making the knockdown work on players regardless of whether they use shield or not. --Warbrolus 14:43, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
• Crusader's Challenge: The taunt portion fails against hidden targets despite spot effect yet consumes all tauntsauce. Since taunting players requires specifying player name in syntax, please consider making it work on hidden targets while under the spot effect or making it so a failed attempt on a hidden target at pole or melee does not consume tauntsauce --Warbrolus 16:36, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Would love it if messaging were added to CRC taunt to reflect when tauntsauce is exhausted. The failed taunts may be confusing to some -- they were to me -- because they show no failure message --Warbrolus 16:36, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Ranger

• Break Branch: Might be a deliberate change, but a second cast of BB on a stunned opponent no longer 'sleeps' them. You get a message- As Sanrisi is already stunned, the spell's energies are wasted. - --Dragnldy 22:47, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Yep this is deliberate --DR-GMSocharis 08:27, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Thief

• Remove the Khri cooldown timer on non-special Khri. - Yamcer 06:04, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
  • At least 10 different thieves I know agree with the above statement. --Loggrim 17:57, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
    • Right now even a khri you can cap is still 120 seconds on cooldown. So even at circle 200, you will have 2 minute cooldowns of tier 1 khri. Could we please at least consider lowering these caps? --Loggrim 00:25, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
      • A bug with cooldowns and khri difficulty (tier) has been fixed by Ric, and functionality of cooldown reduction has been added to KHRI MEDITATE. Could use people to test new results. --Loggrim 05:39, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
• Remove the concentration cost for manually stopping a Khri. --Loggrim 17:57, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
• Thieves need more supernatural exp per pulse from KHRI and KHRI MEDITATE. Non-stop 10 second RTs for 30 minutes while sitting to lock. 2 hours running maximum khri every second, to lock in combat or on the move. Gains need to at least be doubled, if not more. --Loggrim 17:57, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Ricinus adjusted the exp model tonight, requires new testing. At first glance it appears to be about 25% more exp from KHRI MEDITATE. --Loggrim 04:53, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
• Ambush's accuracy is still feels very low, especially against at level or slightly challenging targets. I am not talking about the SvS contest (potency). I am talking about the chance to hit (Backstab+Stealth+Weapon v.s. Perception+Defenses). --Loggrim 17:57, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
• Ambush's SvS contest feels very hard to win in PvP against any fair targets. Leading to situations where you don't ever miss but never land the debuff or stun. --Loggrim 05:44, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
• Ambush's potency (length, effect, duration) for stuns or debuffs at good and major successes feel extremely imbalanced compared to other guilds. --Loggrim 17:57, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
• IGNITE's potency is extremely low due to the fact that storebought napatha is potency 1 out of 100. Please bring storebought napatha in line with the existing quality ratio of storebought weapons and armor compared to crafted weapons and armor. --Loggrim 18:08, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
• HASTEN has very little value as it is only a 15% chance to -1 RT on 5 or less RT attacks. Past 80/80 strength/agility even a 135 stone weapon is 2/3/5 RT. --Loggrim 03:01, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
• SKULK's combo effect has very little value, the single khri SILENCE offers nearly the exact same effect. --Loggrim 03:01, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
• In 3.0, low-mid level thieves (~50ish) can utilize spar and skulk. As of every test tried in 3.1, standing, sitting, delayed, instant, they cannot use either. It appears that the magic "grandfathering" is simply not enough for low-to-mid level characters. Perhaps a sliding scale?. Right now, when 3.1 drops, those characters will be rendered very difficult to play. --Sneeky 20:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Having just restested in the test server, skulk is startable on delay while standing or sitting. Spar is startable instantly while sitting, and on delay while standing. This is not an optimal situation, but it is by far a better option than was previously available. --Sneeky 20:48, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Warrior Mage

• Y'ntrel Sechra is essentially useless once you have ~300 ranks of armor --Elriic 19:49, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • The effect of Y'ntrel is arguably not worth using before this point either, though the hindrance reduction from increased ranks does taper after ~300 --Greyfox 23:11, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
• At low levels (260 TM) Rimefang seems a particularly poor choice when compared to Fire Rain, though I've heard from others than they have no problems at higher levels. --Saragos

• Chain Lightning needs something to differentiate it from Shockwave (While Shockwave has the knockback and optional Flame Shockwave metaspell, they feel functionally identical, both hitting everything one time). --Starlear 08:34, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

• Ward Break feels useless compared to other dispels - it only removes a very small set of buffs. Generally the spells I'd want to remove with it are not effected by it. --Starlear 08:34, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Delayed Issues

The GMs have indicated that some bugs are insufficiently problematic to delay the 3.1 roll out. This area will be a holding area for such issues. Players should only move issues here if a GM has explicitly indicated that the issue should be moved here.

General

• Sky giant's don't seem to be casting Lightning bolt any more. --Greyfox 23:24, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Looks like this has been the case since 3.0. Needs fixing, but it's not necessarily tied to 3.1. --DR-GMSocharis 03:06, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Barbarian

Bard

• Eye of Kertigen is useless.--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Specifically, several posters did not find a searching spell desirable without interaction with the targets. --Eyuve 18:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
  • EoK suggestions - Dedicated perception boost, room lighting feature, or allowing the caster to interact with revealed targets could make this spell more desirable.--Noopin 23:15, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • This spell could probably be improved but we won't hold up the 3.1 release for it. --DR-GMSocharis 09:41, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
• AoT - All languages are achieved at 40 mana, but the cap is 100.--Antendren 19:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
  • The mana range could probably be improved but we won't hold up the 3.1 release for it. --DR-GMSocharis 09:41, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
• The cast messaging for NEXUS is the lone flute even when there's a second person in the room. It also takes several seconds before the mana boost kicks in.--Antendren 16:38, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Good messaging bug, but not something to block 3.1 for. The delay is intentional.--DR-GMSocharis 05:36, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Cleric

Empath

Moon Mage

Necromancer

Paladin

• Righteous Wrath: Please consider adding even a half-strength thrown buff to RW. Training at-level thrown has become near impossible (mindstate does not improve beyond dabbling) against at-level creatures even with stuns (appraising "If you threw the <thrown weapon> at the enemy you are certain that it would train rather well"). Thrown is thematically relevant. --Warbrolus 14:43, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Worth considering but not something we'll hold the 3.1 release up for. --DR-GMSocharis 11:01, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Ranger

Thief

Warrior Mage