User talk:CARAAMON: Difference between revisions

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==Spell Template Request==

I would love to see a category for contested spells, with two boxes to indicate the type of contest (attacker vs. defender). I would also like a category for skill type (Augmentation, Debilitation, Targeted Magic, Utility, or Warding). Thanks! --[[User:Isharon|Isharon]] 07:39, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
: Done. Some of the stuff was being broken by a stupid typo on my part. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 09:36, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
::Thanks! I am planning to go over all of the Paladin, Empath, and Analogous Patterns spells to make sure they're all filled out completely. --[[User:Isharon|Isharon]] 20:44, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

==Spell templates==
It seems that theres something odd about the Bard spell templates where it is adding extra info parts that no longer apply like enchant type, pulse timers, etc. You can look at Hodernia's Lilt and see what I mean. Is there any way that this can get removed since Bard magic is now identical to other casters? --[[User:DkAngel23|DkAngel23]] 21:10, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
: Yeah, I'll do it when I have a moment of spare time. There are some other time-sensitive stuff that needs doing first. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 22:14, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

==Update to 3.0==
Any timeframe for going through and combining the 3.0 information into the mainstream stuff? Are you wanting to wait till Sat morning when they take the game down? --[[User:DkAngel23|DkAngel23]] 07:22, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
: Yep. We'll start moving stuff over once the game goes down. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 07:48, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

What are your thoughts about the approach to do that, in terms of renaming articles etc? --[[User:Farman|Farman]] 19:55, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

I think it might be worth making a discussion in the town green to discuss policies on how Epedia will handle article management for the transition --[[User:Farman|Farman]] 20:16, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

I think having a conduit to direct people to things to update would be great. I tried putting up a nomination for the Category:Articles_for_DR3_Updates page as an Improvement Drive, but can't quite figure out what I need to do to get the heading to show with a link to the category page. Its a quick, easy way to direct people to an auto-populated page that lists articles needing updates after 3.0 hit. Any thoughts on it? --[[User:Leito|Leito]] 06:47, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

==Spell Categories==
It looks like there may be an issue with the Area of Effect and Spell Scroll categories that were created. They dont seem to be linking any of the area or scroll 3.0 spells. Figured Id toss a heads up. -- [[User:DkAngel23|DkAngel23]] 12/9/12 09:41AM
: Changed how the templates handle it. Let me know how that works. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 20:47, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
:: Still seems to be an issue with the Area of Effect section on the spell categories. I set TKS and MS as area of effect with the updated spell form to check it and they still dont show. New Multistrike and Scroll categories work great now. --[[User:DkAngel23|DkAngel23]] 20:48, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
:: Also on a side note Buffing section isnt taking into account the Augmentation type spells, Defensive section isnt taking into account the Warding type spells, and we should probably have a Debuff category for Debilitation types. --[[User:DkAngel23|DkAngel23]] 20:52, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I removed all the old tags like buffing, etc. no longer function. They've been taken over pretty much by the skill options. If you feel like others need to be added, go ahead and suggest them. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 03:01, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
::::Well if we want to update them the Buff Category could be either renamed Augmentation or stay Buff and just link the Augmentation spells over. Defensive category is the same just in regards to Warding. As I mentioned above a Debilitation or Debuff category should be added. On the Healing category thats fine but might add in a way to tag the healing type spells in the spell forms somehow. I can go back through them in that case and update the new Empath 3.0 spells for it. And I saw you made a Battle spells category which could be added to the Spell Types page. --[[User:DkAngel23|DkAngel23]] 20:22, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
:::::Go ahead, you don't need me for those. I'll let you know if I disagree with anything you do. Have at it. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 05:24, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

== Spell 3.0 templates? ==
Are there such things? I noticed that some folks are using a template that appears different from the one used in many of the current spell pages? Can you clarify this for me? I was going to add all the Ranger spells... --[[User:Luckysevens|Luckysevens]] 01:37, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
: The current spell template has been updated to work with 3.0 spells. So knock yourself out. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 02:23, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

If you go to the main page under the Contributing section there is a link to [[Elanthipedia:Forms|forms]]. The spell link in there is the new 3.0 form. --[[User:DkAngel23|DkAngel23]] 8:23 30 November 2012

== spam filter suggestion ==

Would it be possible for the signup process to require initially using a play.net address with a verification link in the email? Might greatly cut down on all these spam accounts you're having to deal with lately. --[[User:TEVESHSZAT|TEVESHSZAT]] 18:01, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
: I'm working on getting the email confirmation system working again. We'll see if that's good enough. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 21:42, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

== Brawling weapons and Forms ==

Can you update the forms for Brawling weapons to handle the size measurements when you get a moment? -[[User:Glimmereyes|Glimmereyes]] 13:45, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
:There also seems to be a bug causing Slice is grabbing the Increase check from Puncture. [[Weapon:Firecat claw elbow blades]].-[[User:Glimmereyes|Glimmereyes]] 13:50, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
:: Fixed and fixed. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup>

== Title Forms ==

How do you format requirements in the forms:
Must know at least X spells from the YY book.
At least X ranks in 1st highest (ranged|melee|blunt) weapon.
Must be at least X circle

Could this information be added somewhere for future reference? I'm trying to update the guild title pages with a buttload of data, but am having trouble with formatting.

Thanks
--[[User:Luckysevens|Luckysevens]] 05:43, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
: [[Template:TitleReq]] -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 07:03, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

== booze question ==

A chunk of the bootlegger crate boozes have item sections as their drink name, but not bottle/jar/jug/etc included. Is that the style we're going with? I thought the one I fixed was just a mistake but it looks like a few are set that way. --[[User:TEVESHSZAT|TEVESHSZAT]] 02:34, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
: Just the booze name, because they can come in a variety of containers. If there are ones that are different, feel free to fix them. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 02:44, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


==Festival combine question==

Hey Caraamon, I noticed there is a page for Jeolandu Festival 389 and a page for Chris's Mass Festival 389. These are in fact the same festival. I can verify from two sources, plus I was there. :) Which one is better to combine them all (the shops) under, Jeolandu or chris's mass?

Or do you have a better thought of how to get all the merchants on both maybe? but I didn't see the sense in duplicating it all on both. The Chris's Mass page is way more filled out, map link, etc, so it would be my pick. Let me know please. Thanks! [[Linett|Linett]] 9/7/12 around 7:20am
: Do whatever you think works best. I trust ya. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 15:25, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

==Fest and Quest==

Hey champ, just wondering if the e-pedia team would entertain the idea of a Festival and/or Quest link on the main page? Perhaps in "The World" section?--[[User:Hexedbythenet|hexedbythenet]] 06:39, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
: Sure, fits nice under "The World" section. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 06:43, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

== Plat rare metal pricing ==

I really have no frame of reference, so I picked a rough guess of what was affordable in plat given the supply/demand.

What does stuff cost in Prime for rare metals?

:{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:left"
|-
|'''Material'''
|'''Price'''
|-
|Lumium
|2plat kronars per vol
|-
|Gold/Plat/Silver/Electrum
|60% of app value
|-
|Damite
|80 plat kronars per vol
|-
|Glaes
|80-100 plat kronars per vol
|-
|Haralun/Kertig
|100 plat kronars per vol
|-
|Silversteel
|200-500 plat kronars per vol
|} Caraamon can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this data to be current, give or take. --[[User:Zamara|Zamara]] 22:42, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
: Yep, that's more or less accurate. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 10:14, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

::Necroing this thread a bit, but is there a place (or do you even think there should be?) for this kind of information on the crafting metals page? Sort of a current market snapshot? --[[User:Naeya|Naeya]] <sup>([[User talk:Naeya|talk]])</sup> 22:03, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
::: It would depend on whether or not someone wants to constantly maintain it. My personal view of it is that it's probably not worth the effort, and I'd rather steer away from something so subjective and might have people ranting about us fixing prices. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 03:48, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

== Guild ability templates ==
Noticing that there isn't really a standard guild ability page format, specifically for beseeches:

http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Beseech_Elanthia_to_Cradle<br />
http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Beseech_the_Sun_to_Dry

Which format do you prefer? I personally don't like the latter as it looks just like a spell, which may be confusing. Is there an updated template that we should use?

Also, is this your preferred avenue for questions regarding epedia? Thanks --[[User:Luckysevens|Luckysevens]] 20:32, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
: The guild ability template came into existance after many abilities were written up and have yet to be converted. I'd prefer using the template, and you're more than welcome to suggest changes if you don't like the way it looks.

: As for contact me, this page works as does IM (CaraamonDR). -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 22:01, 16 January 2013 (UTC)


Just removed my stuff. Jefftyjeff, 01/16/13

== Request for admin reinstatement ==

Hey Caraamon, I intend to remain active here on the wiki and have a few ideas for small additions to the front page etc., so if it please the powers that be, I would be honored to resume admin status. --[[User:Farman|Farman]] 19:04, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
: I think we can do that. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 20:13, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks!! :) --[[User:Farman|Farman]] 21:43, 19 January 2013 (UTC)


== Standard Spells Catagory Page ==
The links on all the spells linking to this page are red, because apparently the page doesn't exist. When I go to the page the catagory exists, but I can't modify it to fix this issue. Can you tweak it? It's annoying me. Category:Standard_Spells should have something on the top like Category:Cyclic_Spells


== Worn location on weapons ==

Hey, I made this page [[Weapon:Mirrored turpeer]] but it doesn't show the worn location on the form like say a LX does for shoulder worn. The turpeer is hair worn. (even though it doesn't say it on appraisal)
--[[User:Linett|Linett]] 16:23 1/30/13

== Spam Accounts ==

You might consider adding some sort of security to account creation, we seem to be getting lots of spam. Have you looked into captcha or some such?
: Yeah, we have them. It's not as secure as you'd think. Sigh. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 07:51, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

== Punctuation marks in post titles ==

Let me ask you something: Do we include them or not? The previous time I made a post with a question mark, it was replaced for one without (it was a while ago, I forget what it was about). So I wrote it down so I wouldn't forget. [[Post:Crossbows_and_Stats_-_02/06/2013_-_15:50|This time]] I make sure to leave it out and then '''boom''' there's this one: [[Post:Crossbows_and_Stats%3F_-_02/06/2013_-_15:50]]<br />With the question mark. <br />[[User:Otterino|Otterino]] 02:36, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
: So long as they don't cause issues (brackets and ampersands can cause issues) you leave it in. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 03:21, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

== Critter Template & Manipulation ==
Since there is no longer a heavy cost and upkeep for manipulation ([[Post:Manipulation_Updates_-_3/1/2011_-_2:32:59|this was changed years ago]]) can we modify this template section on the Critter Temp? Leave the can it be manipulated (yes/no/unknown) and instead of Cost and Upkeep it should have: Empathy required to manipulate 1 creature, required for 2 creatures, Empathy teaching cap. I think the old tiers listed there were for the cost per number of creatures, but it's now capped at 2 creatures. I looked at it and it seems pretty easy to adjust this, but I didn't want to break half the wiki. --[[User:Zamara|Zamara]] 00:29, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
: Sure, go ahead. I'll peek at it later and make sure nothing 'splodes. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 03:21, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

== Necro Guildleaders ==

Reverted an edit on the Necro page showing who runs each necro guilds, since I assume that all people except Book are an IG secret right now, let alone that some haven't really become fully introduced/revealed yet. --[[User:TEVESHSZAT|TEVESHSZAT]] 16:09, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
: Good catch. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 19:43, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Just give me the word on when you *can* put up the names. I'm thinking a short blurb the same as is done with the Thief guildleaders, along the same guidelines thus preserving the secrecy. Can give short descriptions of Looks, when you give permission to do so. Additionally, saying which provinces guilds is associated with Philosophers, Perverse, etc was in a GM post on Simutronics boards so thus would *not* be considered a secret except In-game, so that could be reposted here [[User:Kydosha|Kydosha]] 07:10, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
: I don't have an issue with the allegiances being listed, but no names for now. I'll see if I can track down a GM and find out whether or not they care about these guys. If you think the descriptions are useful without including the names, go for it, but make sure they don't give anything away. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 11:43, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:: Spoke to a GM about this. Basically, once the GLs are general knowledge (one is, one isn't explicitly known to be a GL, the other ones are basically unknown), the GLs can be listed. For now, the only one that can be really listed is the P1 one. --[[User:TEVESHSZAT|TEVESHSZAT]] 21:14, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
::: Sounds good. Let it be so! -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 23:18, 15 June 2013 (UTC)


== Bestiary Level List ==
== Bestiary Level List ==

How does the table generate values for things like min/max rank caps? If I edit an individual critters page to update the min/max caps, will it reflect in the table, or do I have to edit the table itself? I can't seem to figure out how to do the latter. If it doesn't auto-update, is there an easy way to make that happen?--[[User:Luckysevens|Luckysevens]] 18:30, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
How does the table generate values for things like min/max rank caps? If I edit an individual critters page to update the min/max caps, will it reflect in the table, or do I have to edit the table itself? I can't seem to figure out how to do the latter. If it doesn't auto-update, is there an easy way to make that happen?--[[User:Luckysevens|Luckysevens]] 18:30, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:The [[Bestiary Level List]] is automatically populated by data from the individual creature pages. --[[User:Isharon|Isharon]] 05:51, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
:The [[Bestiary Level List]] is automatically populated by data from the individual creature pages. --[[User:Isharon|Isharon]] 05:51, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
: What Ish said. It draws it's data from each of the individual critter pages. If you edit those, then it will alter the table, though there may be some lag between the two. If you do make an edit and it never seems to pop up, then edit the level list page, make no edits, then save it. That should refresh it. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 05:54, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
: What Ish said. It draws it's data from each of the individual critter pages. If you edit those, then it will alter the table, though there may be some lag between the two. If you do make an edit and it never seems to pop up, then edit the level list page, make no edits, then save it. That should refresh it. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 05:54, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

== Elriic Issue ==

[[User:Elriic|Elriic]] has an issue with [[User_talk:TEVESHSZAT#Your_serious_attitude_problem|a perceived attitude problem]]. He also seems to believe that he can threaten to write a shell script to keep inserting his version of the auction table (''"I can revert my changes every day. I will write a shell script that checks this page every 5 minutes if I have to. Tev, STOP undoing people's changes. I'm not joking. This is your one warning to not start a pissing contest with me. You will lose."'' - Guildfest_409_Auction history page note).

:While I have no issue with him taking issue with my editorial stance on the auction page, I consider his desire to keep overriding moderator edits a reason to be banned. You'll probably want to talk to him about this since you are more likely to be much more diplomatic and patient with him, as he generally has issues with me on the DragonRealms forums themselves. --[[User:TEVESHSZAT|TEVESHSZAT]] 14:44, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

::Tev, you're correct. I have massive issues with you. You have a God Complex and have no clear understanding what a community is. A community does not = You delete information and put your crap in replacement. A wikipedia is a fluid site that encourages contributions from the COMMUNITY. Your desire to see your fingerprint on EVERYTHING whether or not its here on the pedia or on the forums is beyond pathetic. I don't care if you delete other people's work. Do not touch mine and we won't have a problem. --[[User:Elriic|Elriic]] 17:25, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

:::I've set the auction page to administration-only edits since Elriic is flying off the handle. We seem to be on the same page when it comes to wanting item specifics on the pages about the items themselves, and I'm not sure why he refuses to do that instead of continually trying to do it on the auction item directory itself. --[[User:TEVESHSZAT|TEVESHSZAT]] 18:01, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

::::Congratulations on proving my point. You might as well just remove all user edits from this site since you clearly don't want a community and want a Tevipedia. --[[User:Elriic|Elriic]] 19:14, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

::::By the way, the least you can do is spell my name right. But then you're Tevipedia and are infallible. --[[User:Elriic|Elriic]] 19:16, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

:::::The page was locked because you clearly don't want to wait until Caraamon and I can talk about this later tonight. I still don't understand why you don't just add the information to individual item pages. I also noticed that you gave [[Isharon]] a similar threat last month, where you said '''"Just saying before the festival starts. If you start mass overwriting people's information, with things you get from a script that is patently wrong, I'll personally write a script that runs every twenty minutes and restores the older information from multiple IP addresses. Try me."''' This seems like a running problem you have with moderators, especially ones that seem to be having to check and double check [[Linett]]'s work. --[[User:TEVESHSZAT|TEVESHSZAT]] 19:32, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

::::::Actually this has nothing to do with Linett. I realized I was being unreasonable with Isharon and quite frankly I intended to post on your talk page. I also deleted it. Isharon's a reasonable person who understands how to work with others as opposed to what you do. I'm still trying to figure out why I'm wasting my energy feeding your ego, and I keep coming back to the fact that I don't want information to be lost. Stop deleting useful information and replacing it with useless crap and this whole issue ends. Do you not get that deleting contributions from other users on this site is wrong? --[[User:Elriic|Elriic]] 19:46, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::::The general format that the community has developed for auction tables is for the note column to describe only the general nature of the item. Additional details, such as the stats of a weapon or itemized contents of a container, are posted on the individual item pages for those who want more information. This reduces clutter and makes the table easier to read. --[[User:Isharon|Isharon]] 19:55, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
::::::::I can understand wanting to preserve information for future additions to the individual item pages, but I would suggest posting that on the auction's Talk page rather than cluttering the "official" table. --[[User:Isharon|Isharon]] 19:55, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Once again, if you are concerned that information is going to be lost, post the information on the individual item pages. That is why they exist. I'm also wondering what edits of mine you were talking about when you "accidentally" threatened Isharon instead of me, since I (1) don't use any epedia scripts and (2) you posted that to her on May 31, 2013, and the Festival map edits started taking place on June 1st, and (3) how does preemptively threaten a moderator make you look good? --[[User:TEVESHSZAT|TEVESHSZAT]] 19:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

:::::::I'm done with you. A moderator would have moved the information to the appropriate place rather than discarding it. This is your ego, plain and simple. If you wish to create Tevipedia, then so be it. I'll stick to editing my user page, maintaining the trailblazer page, and the vela'tohr page. I want nothing to do with a community that is not a community. I apologize for threatening you. That was childish and reflects the degree to which I'm disgusted by your actions. Which does not for ONE MOMENT change the fact that your ego is getting in the way of common sense.--[[User:Elriic|Elriic]] 20:04, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

::::::::Building out individual pages with item details is already on the docket. You would have known that if you spoke to me (or Caraamon) before going off the handle. Sadly, instead having time to build those pages, I had to deal with a crazy person with an obvious grudge. --[[User:TEVESHSZAT|TEVESHSZAT]] 20:19, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

::::::::Enjoy yourself Tevipedia. Site's all yours now. --[[User:Elriic|Elriic]] 00:29, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
::::::::: Okay, several things:
::::::::: First and foremost: anyone who uses a script or any other means to repeatedly alter a page will be banned. I don't care if you're right, I don't care if you're a mod. I do not want to have to do this to anyone.
::::::::: Second, both of you have some good points, but this is a bad place to explore them. I'll contact you on IM and I'm sure we can work out something everyone will be satisfied.
::::::::: Third, I've set up [[Elanthipedia Grievances|this page]] to make clear the procedure for dealing with issues like this. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 09:04, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 00:55, 19 June 2013

Click here for the Archive.

Bestiary Level List

How does the table generate values for things like min/max rank caps? If I edit an individual critters page to update the min/max caps, will it reflect in the table, or do I have to edit the table itself? I can't seem to figure out how to do the latter. If it doesn't auto-update, is there an easy way to make that happen?--Luckysevens 18:30, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

The Bestiary Level List is automatically populated by data from the individual creature pages. --Isharon 05:51, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
What Ish said. It draws it's data from each of the individual critter pages. If you edit those, then it will alter the table, though there may be some lag between the two. If you do make an edit and it never seems to pop up, then edit the level list page, make no edits, then save it. That should refresh it. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi(talk) 05:54, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
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