Talk:The Order of Damaris' Hand: Difference between revisions

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=Content From Idon Raiders Page=
Any particular reason the talk page is virtually a duplicate of the main page?<br>-[[User:Glimmereyes|Glimmereyes]] 21:23, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


{| border="2"
|-
|
: As a general reminder, the following is at the bottom of every single edit page:
<pre>Please note that all contributions to Elanthipedia are considered to be released under the Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported
(see [[Elanthipedia:Copyrights]] for details). If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here.


You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource.
DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION!</pre>
: What does this mean? Either the author of the Raider's article had the authority to waive copyright and did so under the submission agreement, or he/she did not and thus broke that agreement. Either way, Elanthipedia is not ''required'' to fix this legally.


: That being said, we, the moderators, do not look kindly upon blatant plagerism or other intellectual property theft, which is what this appears to be. The authors of NaFianna/Damaris' Hand have a week from today (4/11/2009) to respond or have the offending section edited/removed. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 07:11, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
----
'''''The Order of Damaris' Hand'''''



'''''The God Damaris'''''

many within the order consider Damaris to be their patrons saint. even though this is highly present within the order it is not a requirement for members to solely worship Damaris.









'''''Mission Statement'''''

The goal of Order of Damaris' Hand is to acquire ancient knowledge and power. It seeks to infiltrate all royal courts, orders, and militia units. Order of Damaris' Hand also takes special operations contracts. The decision to accept the contract is based solely on compensation and not on political or moral agendas.





'''''Unclassified Charter'''''

'''''Section 1: goals and purpose.'''''
the goal of the Order of Damaris' Hand are to aquire ancient knowledges, and our purpose is infiltration into any and all royal court's, orders, and militia units as well as to complete specail operations contracts if hired to do so.



'''''Section 2: Governing structure'''''
Order of Damaris' Hand is a infiltration, information gathering, and social order which it's head quarters are based in crossing, but has outposts in each of the provinces. as such, we are loyal to no one particular province or royalty, we are loyal to each other above all others. we operate in utmost secrecy for if the royal hiearchy's learned of our operations within their provinces they would likely have us all exiled from their lands, or worse off dealt severe punishment which we could not hope to return from. Order of Damaris' Hand is governed by 1 leader known as shadowmaster who remains unnamed.the shadow master meets with the head of the High Council, which is named the master of the Council and they discuss the direction of the order. the master of the Council then conveins with the High Council to give direction of the order's buisness. the High Council conviens and votes on all official buisness of the order. each claw is a self supportive operation, and each claw is headed by a leader which is named legatus. the shadowmaster has the veto power over the vote or goes along with the vote and issues orders to the master of the Council . if a veto is given to the High Council it will go back for another vote to decide a different course of action to take. the legatus and his second and third also votes in prospects for membership. prospect needs atleast 3 votes to be gained access to their recruitment phase from High Council. a quorum of two-thirds of the High Council is needed to pass any vote, unless over ridden by the shadowmaster.

section 2b: order meetings, and council meetings.
the High Council will meeet twice a month to go over order buisness. each claw will meet within their alotted time they decide upon. order meetings will be held once per month. in the instance of a order meeting each member will have to use a secondary character, as to hide the true identity of the member, and come to the meeting as their secondary character. if the member then introduces's him/her self as the members secondary character, then the member must attend each meeting as him/her self instead of their secondary character.


section 2c: the High Council
the High Council decides daily buisness of the order. the High Council also takes direction from the Shadowmaster. the High Council is made up of all the claw legatus's.


'''''Section 3: Selection of officers to the High Council .'''''
The High Council is made up of 10 Officers holding the title of legatus. each officer heads up his own perspective unit which is called a "claw" each officer is promoted to officer status by means of deed, or time served. an officer can be removed only by a 3/4 vote of the High Council, thus being replaced by a member that has been voted up to legatus. a member of the claw can become a officer with a vote of the High Council. if the member is promoted to officer within his claw, thus the High Council has voted that it gives rights to the member to recruit his own claw, and that claw becomes a sub claw within original claw.


section 3a membership:
membership is open to all who earn the rite to be called "hand of damaris". A minimum requirement for acceptance is circle 20,preferrably no affiliation with other orders, militia, royal courts but is optional.once the rite is earned the prospect is welcome to become a member of Order of Damaris' hand. and be granted fellowship of all members within and without our order. as we are a order of the shadows most members are not easily sought out. we will maintain our thieflyness and steal from the rich and give to the order. the order will inturn give to its members. we will infiltrate all organizations and compile the most top of the line in depth information of all goings and comings of all organizations, royal heirarchies in the realms. upon recruitment the prospect will be assigned a sponsor. that sponsor will be intrusted to teach the recruit the ways of the order, instruct in the Order's ideals, laws, and history, and be held responsible for their prospects actions and learnings. Returning members must go through the recruit process, the exception being a returning founder of the Order, or High Council member.


'''''Section 4 laws:'''''


1 members are expected to participate in order events, hunts, and jobs. members are alos expected to post once per month on order scrolls(forums), accumilating absences from Order activites without communicating a reason for such, may be cause for removal.

2 A one month absence will cause the master of the High Council to attempt to contact the member to determine the cause of absences. At this time a resolution will be found or an LOA granted. If by two months a member has not responded to attempts to contact, has not contacted the order or has not followed through with agreements to attend Order functions then their name will be submitted to the High Council for removal from the order. A leave of absence may be applied for and approved by the Shadowmaster or master of the High Council

3 Dues are requierd to be paid by each member once a month based upon level of circle or skill.


4 Conflict within the Order is discouraged, but is sometimes unavoidable. In the case of a dispute that cannot be resolved through mediation with Officers of the Order, members may choose the "rite of challenge". Failure to follow a High Council ruling may be grounds for dismissal from the Order.


5 Conflict with those outside the Order that results in defamation of the Order may be grounds for dismissal, exilement and the loss of many favors as you will be put on the "hit list" which you can only be removed by measure of payment or deed.


6 it will be important to the success of this organization that PvP stances should be at least guarded if not open, and we should have a strict no reporting rule. as well it is important of this organization that roleplay stance be set to heavy.


7 all members shall have their pvp stance set to a minimum of guarded, and role play stance set to a minumum of heavy. no report policy for pvp interaction. this rule strictly enoforced, and disregard to this subject will be grounds for dismissal


8 Behavior that disgraces or brings dishonor upon the Order may be grounds for dismissal.


9 In all matters regarding dismissal, any member may bring complaint, which will be investigated thoroughly by the shadowmaster and evidence heard by High Council. Testimony will be heard and fact discerned from hearsay. The member in question may speak in defense and hear the evidence in the matter.




10 in the rare circumstance members of individual claws are allowed to transfer between claws, as long as claw leaders of said two claws agree and both recommend to the High Council for the transfer, and the transfer is passed by vote from High Council



'''''Section 5 ranks:'''''


5a: legatus of war and defense
conducts daily and monthly reports on status of warriors, and status of Order of Damaris' Hand defenses. reports to Master of the Web. head of blood claw.

5b: legatus of specail operations/infiltration
simply put head of specail forces division
assigns specail operations contracts as well as follows up on completion of contracts. head of shadow claw.

5c: legatus of theft
head of thievery for Order of Damaris' Hand
organizes members thiefly contracts, and events sends detailed reports to Master of the web of items thieved and reports on resale and proffits of fenced items. head of black claw.


5d: legatus of operations handles daily tasks of the order. reports to master of the web. Salararius claw

5f: legatus of general membership
heads the jade claw. is in charge of daily tasks to be performed by jade claw members.

5g: legatus of necromancers. heads up decrepit claw.. handles all tasks of the necromancers.


5h: Shadowmaster= leader of Order of Damaris' Hand Order. Speaker of council
5i: Master of the High Council= vice speaker for high council. second in command of order. Vice speaker
5j: legatus= claw leader or sub claw leader. claw leaders that make up High Council
5k: Tribunus= second secondary leader of a claw or sub claw. secondary seats on High Council .
5l: Praefectus= claw officer
5m: frumentarii= personal bodyguard to claw leaders
5n: Evocatus = soldier/claw member
5o: prospect= soldier/claw member in training
5p: cohort= non member-associate-contact- prospective recruit.

'''''Section 6: Rites'''''

section 6a: rite of advancement

is a ceremony in which the a member gains advancement withint the order , assumes position of which he/she is advanced to. or an officer that has been removed from duty threw vote of the High Council, and thus electing a new officer in his/her stead advances from claw member to High Council officer.


section 6b: rite of challenge
in the event of a dispute between claw members,concil members, claw officers a rite of challenge may be issued. issuing a rite of challenge must be presented to the council stating the issue, and the end result. if the council approves the rite of challenge, then the challenge my be conducted between two participants, in witness of the claw leader, and the council. no magic, no boosters, no guild specail ablities will be allowed within rite of challenge pure mono-e-mono.




'''''Section 7: Claws & and leaders'''''



{| class="wikitable"
|'''Blood Claw'''
|War & Defense
|Claw Legatus Sryne. Claw Legatus Khras
|-
|'''Black Claw'''
|Theft
|Claw Legatus Lawsbane
|-
|'''Shadow Claw'''
|Specail Operations/Infiltration
|all claw information classified
|-
|'''Jade Claw'''
|General membership/Support
|Claw Legatus Crounchmeyer
|-
|'''Slarius Claw'''
|Operations/Recruitment
|Claw Legatus Mordicum
|-
|}
|}


::I do have said rights.. i did waiver... I only asked they change so we dont have to. I've edited ours for the most part so it didnt look identical to this one. However, the parts i refuse to change are parts one of our raiders wrote for our website. Thanks very much xox--[[User:IdonsWebmaster|IdonsWebmaster]] 12:07, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


Any particular reason you pretty much copied [[NaFianna?]] rather than used a redirect and altered NaFianna??<br>-[[User:Glimmereyes|Glimmereyes]] 05:11, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


I think its funny you are complaining they copied Nafinianana when they actually copied the raiders almost word for word and it still is copied.. please correct this as you've taken direct quotes from our website.. thank you.
:Since NaFianna? and Order of Damaris' Hand was just a name change a redirect was the proper way to handle it and my note was a polite way of informing them, not an accusation of plagiarism.


:Maybe I'm just missing it, but at this point it's pretty much just the structure of the page rather than the content that's copied from [[Idon Raiders]]. Since you feel different on this, please provide examples and we'll look into it.<br>-[[User:Glimmereyes|Glimmereyes]] 16:53, 7 April 2009 (UTC)




:Since i changed the bulk of ours to look way different since everything was identical i will point out the parts taken from a copyrighted website that you have in fact copied.


:: '''YOURS''' It is the policy of the Order of Damaris' Hand to welcome every guild into the group. However, the Order of Damaris' Hand do not actively recruit Paladins, because their philosophy clashes with the intentions of Order of Damaris' Hand
'''''Section 8 Order Emblems/Items'''''


Stealing skill is not required. The Order of Damaris' Hand believe that a combination of talents is important to the success of any Infiltration assignment. The single most important virtues of an Order of Damaris' Hand are secrecy and a desire to have fun.
High councilors=


::'''RAIDERS'''It is the policy of the Raiders to welcome every guild into the group. Stealing skill is not required. The Raiders believe that a combination of talents is important to the success of any invasion force. The single most important virtues of an Idon Raider are gumption and a desire to have fun.
[[a gold medallion symbolizing dedication to Damaris]]


::'''WEBSITE''' published Nov '08 Stealing skill is not required to compliment a raiding party. As we all know, a combination of talents is important to the success of any invasion force. The single most important virtues of an Idon Raider are gumption and a desire to have fun.
Claw members=
IF you want to see how very much like ours this is and how much was directly copied.. it is possible with wiki to go back to the original versions of the wiki.. like before i changed it all. You will see that right down to the report policy was directly copied then edited.. please fix this.


Just as an aside, if they're copying and pasting from one portion of this wiki to another (i.e. from the raiders article to the nafianna one or this one or whatever), since both edits are licensed under CC-BY-SA 3.0, there's nothing wrong with it. [[User:Fenance|Fenance]] 16:59, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
[[a razor-thin assassin's stiletto with lamp-black coating the blade]]
:Just because it's legal does not make it right. I've already specified it's legal, but in my opinion as a moderator, it's not right. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 20:32, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


== fixed i beleive. ==


fixed our article. i beleive. nafianna/damaris .. if anything different is needed let me know.


:: If you choose to just change a few words around I suppose you did. My hopes were that you would simply take your own ideas and run with them. There are many things still on your wiki that were originally on the Raiders which *I* changed on ours. There is a striking resemblance to ours still but I cant object to you at least trying. But simply adding a word here and there.. doesnt mean it was fixed. You only did just that.. added an extra word to the already existing ones. My hope is that if your group is rp'ing an infiltration group that you can at least have original ideas on things. A good portion of your wiki was made on someone elses hard work and talent not in your group. I am not trying to be mean, I am only trying to help your group stand out as a group who can in fact add to the game in a positive way with new and fresh ideas. Not ideas already dabbled in. I hope your day is great and thanks for trying.
:::If you are satisfied, then this is done. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 22:21, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


'''''Section 9: History'''''


=Feud with Dametri Section=
Since this seems to be an issue, Fenance, could you please move a copy of those logs to a location where a username is not required? -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 16:45, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


Since there seems to be an issue with this, we'll handle it the same was as happened with the Idon's Raiders. Those who wish that section to be added shall provide proof, and those who are against it likewise. Do not edit the page with regard to that section till a decision has been made. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 04:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Part One:
The night was like any other winters end night in the year of the Golden Panther. The air was dry and cold, Xibar's illuminating pale blue rays almost adding to the seasons chill. A light snow fall filled the streets of the Crossing, along with the hustle and bustle of the usual crowds. All shuffeling quickly through the city streets, ignoring the dirty snow that caked to their boots, greaves and robes.
The night was like any other night...Save for the hunter becoming the hunted. The silhouette of a hooded figure crouching in a position similiar to a wolf stalking a deer lingered in an allies shadow. A quiet growl emitted from its muzzle as he found and marked his prey; an elothean trying to guide a small rickety caravan through the busy streets.
The elothean cursed and griped under his breath as he struggled. Pulling the horses lead in a frusterated fashion and still cursing as the caravan freed itself for the streets pot holes. A muzzle broke the mask of shadows with a curling smile as the figure silently lept and climbed between the alley buildings. Once atop the roof's he perched on the corner, watching the elothean like a vulture.
With a solid jerk on the lead rope, the elothean turned the caravan's horse down an alley. The rakash figure noticed his final destination lay not far ahead. Moving quickly, he cleared the buildings gap and made his descent to the alley's cold wet road. The elothean seemed oblivious, his back to the rakash. With short silent steps the rakash figure struck.
The glimmer of a blade slipped from beneath his cloak and towards the elotheans neck. The figure's eyes widened as the elothean stepped back, slamming his back into his stomache. The blade sailed passed its intended target, giving the elothean leverage. Using the rakash's momentum against him and shifting his weight, the elothean flipped his aggressor over his shoulder and onto his back.
With a sharp gasp of pain, the rakash stared back at his own blade, now grasped in the elotheans hand...


::The logs are on play.net; what part of that requires a username? Not to mention, you can freely register a username anyway (at smellycat). This is pretty stupid that you're removing the proof and evidence, and then claiming there's no proof or evidence. I'm reinserting it. [[User:Fenance|Fenance]] 15:06, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:::As much as you feel this way, you were told not to edit the page until this is resolved. I'll copy the link over here for those who don't like going through the history for the links.
:::[http://www.smelly-cat.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11477&p=299782#p299760 Smelly-Cat] [https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=39&topic=31&message=33 Play.net]<br>-[[User:Glimmereyes|Glimmereyes]] 15:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Caraamon said "Those that wish that section to be aded shall provide proof". Proof was there right from the beginning. What's the problem here? [[User:Fenance|Fenance]] 21:32, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:Right now? You were told post your proof on the Discussion page, not the main page. Previously, ya'll couldn't settle this amongst yourselves and forced the mods to step in, and we'd rather hear from both sides before coming to a decision.
:As for the problem with the location of the logs, some people don't want to create accounts and give out e-mail address if they don't have to. Forcing people to create an account also puts a burden on the Forum it's being hosted on. The admins of Smelly-Cat may not mind lots of rarely used accounts being created, but it's still a practice that should be avoided.<br>-[[User:Glimmereyes|Glimmereyes]] 00:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
::Don't want to give out an email address to register? Use a spam-free email service. Gmail, or if you don't want to set that up, spamfree24.org is a throwaway, no registration required. Not to mention, the discussion is on the play.net forums, which presumably we all have access to anyways. It's improper to say "provide evidence" but then say "But I don't want to go through the trouble to register to see it". If people don't want to do so, that's their prerogative. It does not, however, mean that the evidence isn't there. It just means the people are too lazy to take the extra step to see it. [[User:Fenance|Fenance]] 01:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:::For the duration of the issue, the log from Smelly Cat can be found at [[Feud With Dametri Log]]. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 02:04, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


That reminds me; is there a namespace for Logs?[[User:Fenance|Fenance]] 01:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
: There will likely be one set up once we solve some of these semantik wiki problems. -Moderator [[User:Caraamon|Caraamon Makdasi]]<sup>([[User talk:Caraamon|talk]])</sup> 01:56, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


::Caraamon, as you may or may not know, I'm involved with several mediawiki developers, including one that is familiar with Semantic Wiki. If you'd like, I can put you in touch. Shoot me an email if you'd like to know more. [[User:Fenance|Fenance]] 04:49, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Part Two:
Little is known what happened in the dark allies of the Crossing streets that night. All that is told is that a scroll was exchanged from the elothean to the rakash. The scroll, shroud in mystery, seems to have disappeared from the face of Elanthia. Although what is known is shortley after the scrolls disappearance, a string of secret knowledge was released to those who paid the highest price. Some speak of the leaks as of some incrediable agent. Others speak of it as an orginization dedicated to infiltrating and liberating knowledge to the highest bidder. Thus beginning the rumours of the order only whispered, never spoken of out loud...."The Order of Damaris' Hand."

Latest revision as of 22:49, 15 May 2009

Content From Idon Raiders Page

As a general reminder, the following is at the bottom of every single edit page:
Please note that all contributions to Elanthipedia are considered to be released under the Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported
(see [[Elanthipedia:Copyrights]] for details). If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here.

You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource.
DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION!
What does this mean? Either the author of the Raider's article had the authority to waive copyright and did so under the submission agreement, or he/she did not and thus broke that agreement. Either way, Elanthipedia is not required to fix this legally.
That being said, we, the moderators, do not look kindly upon blatant plagerism or other intellectual property theft, which is what this appears to be. The authors of NaFianna/Damaris' Hand have a week from today (4/11/2009) to respond or have the offending section edited/removed. -Moderator Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi(talk) 07:11, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
I do have said rights.. i did waiver... I only asked they change so we dont have to. I've edited ours for the most part so it didnt look identical to this one. However, the parts i refuse to change are parts one of our raiders wrote for our website. Thanks very much xox--IdonsWebmaster 12:07, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Any particular reason you pretty much copied NaFianna? rather than used a redirect and altered NaFianna??
-Glimmereyes 05:11, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I think its funny you are complaining they copied Nafinianana when they actually copied the raiders almost word for word and it still is copied.. please correct this as you've taken direct quotes from our website.. thank you.

Since NaFianna? and Order of Damaris' Hand was just a name change a redirect was the proper way to handle it and my note was a polite way of informing them, not an accusation of plagiarism.
Maybe I'm just missing it, but at this point it's pretty much just the structure of the page rather than the content that's copied from Idon Raiders. Since you feel different on this, please provide examples and we'll look into it.
-Glimmereyes 16:53, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


Since i changed the bulk of ours to look way different since everything was identical i will point out the parts taken from a copyrighted website that you have in fact copied.
YOURS It is the policy of the Order of Damaris' Hand to welcome every guild into the group. However, the Order of Damaris' Hand do not actively recruit Paladins, because their philosophy clashes with the intentions of Order of Damaris' Hand

Stealing skill is not required. The Order of Damaris' Hand believe that a combination of talents is important to the success of any Infiltration assignment. The single most important virtues of an Order of Damaris' Hand are secrecy and a desire to have fun.

RAIDERSIt is the policy of the Raiders to welcome every guild into the group. Stealing skill is not required. The Raiders believe that a combination of talents is important to the success of any invasion force. The single most important virtues of an Idon Raider are gumption and a desire to have fun.
WEBSITE published Nov '08 Stealing skill is not required to compliment a raiding party. As we all know, a combination of talents is important to the success of any invasion force. The single most important virtues of an Idon Raider are gumption and a desire to have fun.

IF you want to see how very much like ours this is and how much was directly copied.. it is possible with wiki to go back to the original versions of the wiki.. like before i changed it all. You will see that right down to the report policy was directly copied then edited.. please fix this.

Just as an aside, if they're copying and pasting from one portion of this wiki to another (i.e. from the raiders article to the nafianna one or this one or whatever), since both edits are licensed under CC-BY-SA 3.0, there's nothing wrong with it. Fenance 16:59, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Just because it's legal does not make it right. I've already specified it's legal, but in my opinion as a moderator, it's not right. -Moderator Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi(talk) 20:32, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

fixed i beleive.

fixed our article. i beleive. nafianna/damaris .. if anything different is needed let me know.

If you choose to just change a few words around I suppose you did. My hopes were that you would simply take your own ideas and run with them. There are many things still on your wiki that were originally on the Raiders which *I* changed on ours. There is a striking resemblance to ours still but I cant object to you at least trying. But simply adding a word here and there.. doesnt mean it was fixed. You only did just that.. added an extra word to the already existing ones. My hope is that if your group is rp'ing an infiltration group that you can at least have original ideas on things. A good portion of your wiki was made on someone elses hard work and talent not in your group. I am not trying to be mean, I am only trying to help your group stand out as a group who can in fact add to the game in a positive way with new and fresh ideas. Not ideas already dabbled in. I hope your day is great and thanks for trying.
If you are satisfied, then this is done. -Moderator Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi(talk) 22:21, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


Feud with Dametri Section

Since this seems to be an issue, Fenance, could you please move a copy of those logs to a location where a username is not required? -Moderator Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi(talk) 16:45, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Since there seems to be an issue with this, we'll handle it the same was as happened with the Idon's Raiders. Those who wish that section to be added shall provide proof, and those who are against it likewise. Do not edit the page with regard to that section till a decision has been made. -Moderator Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi(talk) 04:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

The logs are on play.net; what part of that requires a username? Not to mention, you can freely register a username anyway (at smellycat). This is pretty stupid that you're removing the proof and evidence, and then claiming there's no proof or evidence. I'm reinserting it. Fenance 15:06, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
As much as you feel this way, you were told not to edit the page until this is resolved. I'll copy the link over here for those who don't like going through the history for the links.
Smelly-Cat Play.net
-Glimmereyes 15:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Caraamon said "Those that wish that section to be aded shall provide proof". Proof was there right from the beginning. What's the problem here? Fenance 21:32, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Right now? You were told post your proof on the Discussion page, not the main page. Previously, ya'll couldn't settle this amongst yourselves and forced the mods to step in, and we'd rather hear from both sides before coming to a decision.
As for the problem with the location of the logs, some people don't want to create accounts and give out e-mail address if they don't have to. Forcing people to create an account also puts a burden on the Forum it's being hosted on. The admins of Smelly-Cat may not mind lots of rarely used accounts being created, but it's still a practice that should be avoided.
-Glimmereyes 00:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Don't want to give out an email address to register? Use a spam-free email service. Gmail, or if you don't want to set that up, spamfree24.org is a throwaway, no registration required. Not to mention, the discussion is on the play.net forums, which presumably we all have access to anyways. It's improper to say "provide evidence" but then say "But I don't want to go through the trouble to register to see it". If people don't want to do so, that's their prerogative. It does not, however, mean that the evidence isn't there. It just means the people are too lazy to take the extra step to see it. Fenance 01:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
For the duration of the issue, the log from Smelly Cat can be found at Feud With Dametri Log. -Moderator Caraamon Strugr-Makdasi(talk) 02:04, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

That reminds me; is there a namespace for Logs?Fenance 01:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

There will likely be one set up once we solve some of these semantik wiki problems. -Moderator Caraamon Makdasi(talk) 01:56, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Caraamon, as you may or may not know, I'm involved with several mediawiki developers, including one that is familiar with Semantic Wiki. If you'd like, I can put you in touch. Shoot me an email if you'd like to know more. Fenance 04:49, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
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