Talk:Gamgweth Grammar (book)

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Contents

What Is This?

This is mean to be a discussion of a lexical analysis that complements the grammar book.

This is also intended to find out what modifications to the language should be make to clarify certain constructions whenever issues are noticed.

You will often see (construed) where there doesn't exist an explicit example of the thing and comparisons with other words were made.

Any notes with (construed, weak) means there exists only a single example and is ineffective to provide proper rules, but it was used anyways. Updates:

  • 08DEC16 - Cleaned up on to make it more organized
  • 10JAN17 - include verb moods (as applicable)
  • 19MAY17 - include a short story example; also changed Hortatives sentence structure which matches normal Gamgweth structure more closely but with added, preceding exhortative Let
  • 18OCT19 - include ordinals; include another short story

Basic Structure

Assuming you already know what nouns, adjectives, verbs, and other common parts of speech, this will just describe some simple examples

Alphabet

There are 24 Common characters used in Gamgweth (by example)

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P R S T U V W Y Z
  • Notice there is no example of the Common letters Q or X used (though the vocals may exist in other combinations)

Punctuation

There are 4 (or 5) special characters used punctuation and are as follows:

Character Usage
. end of a declarative sentence.
 ? direct question at end of sentence
, separate ideas, elements, clauses (but not to separate adjectives)
' (apostrophe) indicate vocal stop (construed) between compounds where similar double consonants are paired; e.g., seord'telgi (dark green);

also used when inflecting verbs by adding -ing; e.g., gwelder (kill) -> a'gwelder (killing); may also be vocal stops

 ! (presumably) indicate emphasis in declarative or vocative sentence

Parts of Speech

Articles

Definite (the) Indefinite (a and an)
li vi

Prepositions

against gand
as ev
at ae
by ha
in ve
inside vetar (construed)
of ai / rae
on kus
out dilu
outside dilutar (construed)
to ri

Preposition Example

... on the volcano ... kus li aesker
... on the hot volcano ... kus li aeskerarthemor

Conjunctions

and ia
but kho
nor uldin (construed)
or ul

Subordinating Conjuntions

"I was so scared that I ran away" (complement)

"I use that" (noun)

"I found it useful that I had the gold already" (sub conj) [arguable]

"It is on top of that table" (adjective)

  • This is meant to illustrate that these words may are not well-defined; it may be right in Common reuse the same word in different ways, but it may not be the intended usage in Gamgweth.
how lof
than jen
that padia
when sudu
where suren

Compound Nouns (Noun + Noun/Adjective)

Greater Type of Thing

suffix -mor "great" to specify a greater amount/degree of a noun or adjective

Noun Meaning Modified Noun New Meaning
chel "cool" chelmor "cold"
zindu "house" zindumor "manor"
sel "sea" selmor "ocean"
lermor "gorge"
gelv "cave" gelvmor "cavern"

Lesser Type of Thing

suffix -ban "little" to specify a lesser amount/degree of the noun or adjective

Noun Meaning Modified Noun New Meaning
sel "sea" selban "bay"
fal "river" falban "creek/brook"
lerban "fissure"

Type of Area

remove end vowel and suffix -ren "land" to specify an area consiting of the type of noun or adjective

Noun Meaning Modified Noun New Meaning
mod "tree" modren "woodland"
neflor "train" nefloren "training ground"
nama "salt" namadren "salt flats"

Full of, Filled with, Surrounded by

suffix -ta "full"

Noun Meaning Modified Noun New Meaning
crof "bush" croftan "brush"
selban "bay" selbanta "cay"
din "no/not/zero" dinta "empty"
av "eye" avtai "stars" (see seordav "eclipse" [dark + eye])

Type of Person (Occupation)

suffix -ger "person"

Noun Meaning Modified Noun New Meaning
tyval "theft" tyvalger "thief"
lasa "noble" lasager "nobleman"

Young Type of Thing

suffix -wen "young"

Noun Meaning Modified Noun New Meaning
ger "person" gerwen "child"
andu "day" anduwen "morning"
lasa "noble" lasawen "heir"
night "surmi" (inflected) sumiwen "evening"

Negative Type of Thing

suffix -isi (construed "unwelcome/unwanted/dangerous/negative")

Noun Meaning Modified Noun New Meaning
lort "plant" lortisi "weed"
dyr "animal" (construed) dyrisi "beast" (see dyrgelv "den")

Time of Thing

suffix -dor (construed "time")

Noun Meaning Modified Noun New Meaning
jeol "ice" Jeoldor "Winter"
anla "sun" Anlador "Summer"
sca "before" (construed) scador "prepare"

Ordinals, Sequence

suffix -(h)lu (from Zohlu + ren => "First" + "Land")

Noun Meaning Modified Noun New Meaning
zo "one" zohlu "first"
do "two" dohlu "second"

Adjectives

Basic Construction

  1. Normally, all adjectives follow the noun on the right
  2. Only the first adjective is attached to the noun (when multiple descriptors exist)
  3. Vocal stops can be used with apostrophes normally when consonants are grouped

Compound Rules (More Detail)

Li denenshonarthe... "The warm king..." (the king warm)
Li denenshon a'phopher ... "The dreaming king ..." (The king dreaming ...)
Falban Seord'tegli "Dark green brook" (River-lesser dark'green)

Noun Adjectives, Attribute (Common: -y)

Suffix: -(i)n, drop the 'i' when suffixed to an existing vowel

gloom (n) gloomy (adj)
elba elban
fire (n) fiery (adj)
aes aesin (construed, weak)

This is important as a distinction, because words in Common can change form when created as an adjective or adverb. Just because Common does it, doesn't mean that Gamgweth requires it, but take the case of aes for fire. How does one define "Fire" the noun adjunct differ explicitly from "Fiery" the adjective as it is clearly seen in Common?

maor aes zaul => "Fiery Devil Cat" or "Devil Fire Cat"? maor aeszaul => "Fire-Devil Cat" or "Devil-Fire Cat"? maoraes zaul => "Devil Fire-Cat"?
maor zaul aes => "Fiery Devil Cat" or "Fire Devil-Cat"? maorzaul aes => "Fire Devil-Cat" or "Fiery Devil-Cat"? maor zaulaes => "Fire-Devil Cat"?

While the distinctions may be clearer in written form, when Gamgweth is vocalized, the necessity for inflection should become apparent, yet there doesn't appear to be a general rule to assist with this process of distinguishing a noun from its adjective form. Take the difference between "the bony prince" and "the Bone Prince"; in Common, the nouns and adjectives are easy to understand.

Noun Adjectives, Pertaining To (Common: -al)

Suffix: -nth

magic (n) magical (adj)
cambri cambrinth
nature (n) natural (adj)
ierna iernanth (construed, weak)

To Make, To Become, Appearance of, Turn Into (Common: -en / en-)

Suffix: -(a)fi, (created from existing word safir == become)

Adjective Meaning Modified Adjective New Meaning
rom "broad" romafi "broaden"
atila "gold (metal)" atilafi "golden (construed, weak)"

Adverb Creation (Common: -ly)

In the example Gamgweth sentence "Aevirke ulf lasadal ia bueserke wirue", the adverb is at the end with a -ue suffix. Where wir (evil) + -ue is likely intended to mean "evilly". Thus creating the translation: "The wolf saw the lady and smiled evilly".

evilly wirue (evil-ly)
Gwerke sannue Juli ri li trekhalosann. "Juli spoke well to the good chieftan" (speak-past good-ly [well] Juli to the chieftan-good)
Hentorke bolgue morue vi Juli bolg morue ve li gelvmor'seord morue. "A very bad Juli very badly traveled in the very dark cave" (travel-past bad-ly great-ly [very] a Juli bad very in the cave dark very)
  • assume Heyor (greet (v)), from Heyo (hello)
Heyor li denenshonarthe Juli. "The warm king greets Juli"
Heyor li denenshon Juli artheue. "The king greets Juli warmly"

Verbification (Noun to Verb)

If ending with a vowel

Suffix: -r

Noun Modified Noun New Meaning
phofe phofer "dream (v)"
ferse ferser "sleep (v)"

If ending with a vowel+consonant

Suffix: replace consonant with -r

Noun Modified Noun New Meaning
achol achor "fear (v)"
abues abuer "love (v)"

If ending with a double-consonant

Suffix: -er

Noun Modified Noun New Meaning
gweld gwelder "kill (v)"


Verbs

Infinitives

There are no infinitves with verbs explicitly, however there is ri (to) which may suggest it is usable to create them. However, it may also be intended to be preposition only and represents the Common use of the word, not necessarily proper Gamgweth usage.

Transitive Verbs

are modified by tense

Gweldke Juli li denenshon. "Juli killed the king" (Kill-did Juli the king)

Intransitive Verbs

are modified only as a tense participle when using copulas (be)

Sa Juli a'gwelder. "Juli is killing." (Be Juli killing)

Nominalization

are verbs that have been inflected into a nouns

  • e.g., Nominalize => Nominalization

Suffix: -pa, from pa (it) Note: This is a created rule; no examples exist

Sake taisarpa denan sanyu. "His flight was divine." (Be-past fly-it his divine)

Be and Do Specific

Be (is/was/will be) sa (be-present, is), sake (be-past, was), saal (be-future, will be)
Do (do/does/did) esar (do-present, does), esarke (do-past, did), esaral (do-future, will do)

Auxiliary Constructions (By Example)

Progressive

Past Progressive

Sake li denenshon a'gwelder. "The king was killing" (be-past the king killing)
Sake gaena a'gwelder. "They were killing" (be-past they killing)

Past Progressive + Past Participle

Sake li denenshon a'sa gwelderke. "The king was being killed" (be-past the king being kill-past)

Present Progressive

Sa li denenshon a'gwelder. "The king is killing" (be-pres the king killing)
Sa gaena agwelder. "They are killing" (be-pres they killing)

Present Progressive + Past Participle

Sa li denenshon a'sa gwelderke. "The king is being killed" (be-pres the king being kill-past)

Future Progressive

Saal li denenshon a'gwelder. "The king will be killing" (be-fut the king killing)
Saal gaena a'gwelder. "They will be killing" (be-fut they killing)
Saal gaena a'tyvar urfe naen. "They will be stealing all afternoon" (be-fut they stealing afternoon all)

Perfect Progressive

  • use of kar sa "have + be" with tense participle verbs (-ing)
Present Perfect Progressive
kar li denenshon sa a'gwelder. "The king has been killing" (has-pres the king be killing)
karfano li denenshon sa a'gwelder. "The king could have been killing." (has-pres-could the king be killing)
Past Perfect Progressive
karke li denenshon sa a'gwelder. "The king had been killing" (has-past the king be killing)
karkefano li denenshon sa a'gwelder. "Thing king could have been killing" (has-past-could the king be killing)
Future Perfect Progressive
karal li denenshon sa a'gwelder. "The king will have been killing" (has-fut the king be killing)

Simple

Past Simple

Esarke Juli gwelder. "Juli did kill" (do-past Juli kill)
Gwelderke Juli. "Juli did kill" (per grammar rule) (kill-past Juli)

Present Simple

Use modal conjugations when describing activities

Gwelderal Juli. "Juli will kill"
Gelderke Juli. "Juli has killed"
Use of modal esar (do)
Esar Juli gwelder. "Juli does kill"
Esar ama gwelder. "I do kill"
Esar tema gwer Gamgweth? "Do you speak Gamgweth?"
Esar ama gwer Gamgweth. "I do speak Gamgweth"
Example With Adjective/Adverb
Esar ama gwer Gamgwethahle. "I do speak beautiful Gamgweth" Do-pres I speak Gamgweth-beautiful
Esar ama gwer Gamgweth ahleue. "I do speak Gamgweth beautifully" Do-pres I speak Gamgweth beautiful-ly

Future Simple

Gwelderal Juli. "Juli will kill" (kill-fut Juli)
Sa Juli hevor ri gwelder. "Juli is going to kill" (be Juli going to kill)
  • There are no explicit infinitives, therefore it might be okay to drop the ri (to) as implied infinitive or preposition. It could also be reasonable to enjoy dropping it as informal.

Moods

Indicative

Moods based on state of realized fact/hypothesis (realis)

Sa Juli delenshon. "Juli is queen" (be-pres Juli queen)

Subjunctive

Moods based on wanted/desired states contrary to fact/hypothesis

  • Assume a suffix exists for obligatory verb like "should": -'elne
  • Assume a word exists for 'give': garril [hand(n) + to + 'l']
Sa'elne Juli delenshon. "Juli should be queen" (Be-oblig Juli queen)
Garrir ama sa'elne Juli delenshon. "I suggest Juli be* queen" (Give(v) I be-pres-oblig Juli queen)
Swar'elne tema. "You should eat" (Eat-oblig you)

Conditional

Moods which statements conditionally depend on fact/hypothesis rather than want/desire

  • Assume a word exists for permissive verb like "may": fol
Ce sa Juli delenshon, hevoral ama. "If Juli is queen, I will go" (If be Juli queen, go-will I)
Hevoral ama ce sake Juli delenshon. "I will go if Juli were queen" (Go-will I if be-past(was) Juli queen)
Safolfanoke ama aevir Juli. "I *might be able* to see Juli" (Be-may-can-past I see Juli)
Sano ama denenshon ce sake Juli gwelderke. "I would be king if Juli were killed" (Be-would I king if be-was Juli kill-past)
Safolke ama denenshons ce sa Juli gwelderke. "I might be king if Juli is killed" (Be-may-past I king if is Juli killed)

Imperative

Moods that demonstrates command or begging

  • Assume an inflection/particle exists for commanding: -(r)o
Fersrodin (tema). "(You) (do) not sleep!" (Sleep-command-neg (you))
Esrodin (tema) fersel. "(You) do not sleep!" (Do-command-neg (you) sleep)
 ?Feed-o (tema) ama. "(You) feed me" (?Feed-command (you) me)
Gweldro (tema) Juli. "(You) kill Juli" (Kill-command (you) Juli)
Garriro (tema) kronar naen teman ri ama. "Give me all your money." (Give-command (you) money all your to me)

Optative

Moods that express wish/desire, but without necessity/dependency of realization

  • Assume an inflection/particle exists for wishing: -em
Sanrarem Juli misekaldin. "May Juli live forever" (Live-wish Juli end(n)-not (never; construed))
Gweldremke Juli (sa). "May Juli be killed" (Kill-wish-past Juli (be))

Hortative(s)

Moods of dis/encouragement towards realization (1pl.imp; 2sg/pl.imp when ex/dehortative; 3sg/pl.imp jussive)

  • Assume hortative moods always start with the verb for "let": vor (actual)
  • No other conjugation
Vor hevor aena. "Let us away. (Let's go!)" (Let go us)
Vor cuir aena. "Let's sing." (Let sing us)
Vordin esar tema pama. "You cannot do this. (dissuasive instead of impermissive)" (Let-not do you this)
Vor gweld Juli. "Let Juli die" (Let die Juli) the lack of subject should contextually imply exhortative rather than imperative
Vor halmir gaena vetar. "Allow them entry." (Let come they inside)

Inferential

Mood indicating a unexpected believed/unwitnessed realizations which is dubious

  • Assume a word exists for the verb "swim": jaltar or jalar (construed from hen+tor and tais+ar)
  • No conjugation
Safir'mivarue Juli sake vi ?tart. "Apparently Juli was a tart" (Become-know-ly(apparently; construed) Juli be-past a ?tart)
Jalarke Juli li aesker. "Juli swam the volcano" (Swim-past Juli the volcano)


Short Story Example

  • Note: "going" is intention of future, and literal "going + infinitive" can be misinterpreted easily without invoking infinitives which have no explicit examples in Gamgweth
Gamgweth Common Literal Translation
Zo andu, tyvarke dennat ord'Kronar ve Dirge. One day, a man stole money in Dirge. (One day, steal man Kronar-many in Dirge)
Yanorke hegessger'alyda ia olkarke dena li tyvalger. A paladin attacked and caught the thief. (attacked knight-holy and held he the thief)
Sake gaena hentoral ri li H'Argir, kho safirke gaenan vetar dinta. They were going to travel to the Crossing but became hungry. (were they will travel to the Crossing, but became their inside empty)
"Vor mengur ama aena lort'arthemor ma li baya. Morlar tema rema," gwerke tyvalger. "Let me buy us food in the shop. Wait here.," said the thief. (Let trade me us food from the shop. Stand you here, said thief)
"An, sa ama deslave vetar dinta." gwerke hegessger'alyda. "Okay, I am also hungry", said the paladin. (Yes, be I also inside empty, said knight-holy)
Morlarke hegessger'alyda, kho tyvarke tyvalger dilu. The paladin waited, but the thief snuck away. (Stood knight-holy, but stole thief out)
Rhoarke, deslave olkarke hegessger'alyda li tyvalger, ia sake gaena hentoral ri li H'Argir. Angered, the paladin again caught the thief, and they were going to travel to the Crossing. (Angered, again held knight-holy the thief, and were they will-travel to the Crossing)
"Morlaro! Sa aman vetar dinta maltoghazal. Vor mengur ama aena lort'arthemor ma li baya," gwerke tyvalger. "Wait! I am still hungry. Let me buy us food from the shop," said the thief. (Stand! Be my inside empty time-silent (still). Let trade me us food from the shop, said thief)
"Din. Sa ama lyo. Pama malto, hevor'al ama vetar, ia morlar'al ama dilutar," gwerke hegessger'alyda. "No. I am wise. This time, I will go inside, and you will wait outside," said the paladin. (No. Be wise I. This time, will-go I inside, and will-stand you outside, said knight-holy)
Word Construed or Used-As Meaning
hegessger'alyda (knight holy) paladin
morlar (stand) wait
deslave (in more) again, also
lort'arthemor (hot plant) food, as in "cooked plants" (there is no 'cooked', but arguably aes (fire) could be feasibly involved)
ma from (ex. words: pama, maren, lorma)
aman vetar (my inside) stomach
aman/gaenan vetar dinta (my/their inside empty/not full) hungry
maltoghazal (time silent) still/yet
jan fertile/seeded (ex. words: lorjan, janden)

Story Review

What I have noticed from this example story construction as persistent issues are:

  1. Grammar. The grammar is still hard to nail down in certain areas. Such as the "intention" of doing something. In Common, the "going + infinitive" is an intent rather than a prediction, and doesn't translate well without infinitives. Since there are no examples of infinitives I can find as of yet, it makes no sense to arbitrarily introduce them either just to make translation easier. There is a significant amount of time, but only in more complex areas, spent identifying the best grammar structure to create a positive translation -- it seems like the described rules and grammar page suffice for mostly all simple sentences. More stories with increasing complexity will help flesh out Gamgweth syntax better.
  2. Vocabulary. There are a LOT of words that simply don't exist in practical speech. More time is spent trying to find a word, a relative word, or construe a meaning from the joined nouns to accommodate the lack. In some ways, it's an open market in a first-come-first-serve format for creating words to suffice; in other ways, it's dangerous because there's still a lot of grammar/word-rules to be extracted from the language that only comes through this type of analysis.

Short Story 2

Gamgweth Common Literal Translation
Zo andu, seordarke vi dennatfeir denan kronar ae nemmatar vi mod. One day, hide-past a man-old his money at down-side a tree. (One day, an old man his his money at below a tree.)
Kho naenpomzoi andu, lerbarke dena denan kronar ia aevardesu dena pa. But all-what-one-of day, dig-past [lit. fissure-d(v.)] he his money and watch-long he it. (But each day, he dug his money and he gazed (at) it.)
Aevirke vi tyvalger pama, lerbarke dena li kronar, ia tyvarke diluerest. See-past a thief this, dig-past he the money, and stole out-far. (A thief saw this, he dug the money, and stole far away.)
Sude halmirke dennatfeir aevir denan kronar, sake lerban dinta. When came man-old (to) see his money, was hole empty. (When the old man came to see his money, the hole was empty.)
Umorke dena denan fandai, gwermorke, halmirke art'trefgaen ri dena, gwerke dena safirke lerban dinta ia tyvarke dena kronar. Claw-past he his hair, speak-great-past, came near-home-people to him, said he be-past hole empty and stolen his money. (He clawed his hair, yelled, his neighbors came to him, and he said his hole is empty and his money stolen.)
"Esarke tema olkar pa ord'dinai dilu?" gwerke gaena. "do-past you hold it few-of out?" speak-past they. ("Did you take any of it out?" they asked.)
"Din," gwerke dena, "Halmirke ama aevir ae pa." "No", speak-past he, "Came I look at it." ("No", he said, "I came to look at it.")
"Halmiro deslave, ia aeviro li lerban," gwerke art'trefgar. "Sa zohlu ia dohlu zo." Come(imp.) again, and look(imp.) (you) the hole," speak-past near-home-people. "Be first and second one." ("Come again, and look at the hole," said (a) neighbor. "The first and second are one [are the same].")
Word Construed or Used-As Meaning
naenpomzoi => naen + pom + zo + ai each => all what one of
fandai => ai + fand hair => of + head (similar to fandim => "neck")
zohlu, dohlu => zo/do + hlu first, second => from Zohlu + ren = First Land
lerbarke => lerban (verbified -r) + ke dug => (lit.) Fissure-d
aevardesu => aevar + desu gaze, stare => look + long
nemmatar => nemma + tar below, bottom => down + side
dilurest => dilu + rest far away => out + far
art'trefgar, art'trefgaen => art + tref + gar/gaen neighbor, neighbors => near home person/people
gwermor => gwer + mor yell => speak (greater type of)
ord'dinai => orddin + ai any => few of

--DAEMETHEUS (talk) 14:06, 18 October 2019 (CDT)