Trader gem selling bonus - Revision history

TK-421: formatting, +cat

2021-03-02T18:08:11Z

formatting, +cat

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:08, 2 March 2021
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	The [[Trader]] bonus is used to increase the coin gained from when the Trader personally sells gems or skins, whether individually or in open, closed, or tied gem pouches or bundles. This bonus is based upon a Trader's [[Charisma]], as well as their [[Trading]] and [[Appraisal]] skill~~.<br><br>When a Trader unlocks the ability depends on that stat and skills, there's no set or minimum circle. However, it will generally be about 15th circle. The exact formulas are below~~.		The [[Trader]] bonus is used to increase the coin gained from when the Trader personally sells gems or skins, whether individually or in open, closed, or tied gem pouches or bundles. This bonus is based upon a Trader's [[Charisma]], as well as their [[Trading]] and [[Appraisal]] skill.

			When a Trader unlocks the ability depends on that stat and skills, there's no set or minimum circle. However, it will generally be about 15th circle. The exact formulas are below.

	== General Overview ==		== General Overview ==
		⚫	# When a Player Character attempts to sell a gem or skin to an NPC buyer, the base appraisal value (as seen with an accurate and precise appraisal) is the starting base value of the item.

		⚫	# The character's Trading Bonus modifies this, by adding a percentage multiplier to the base value. Non-Traders have a 0% Trading bonus and don't ever change. Traders have an inherent bonus that raises their base setting higher than 0%.
⚫	1. When a Player Character attempts to sell a gem or skin to an NPC buyer, the base appraisal value (as seen with an accurate and precise appraisal) is the starting base value of the item.
		⚫	# This is then further modified by a random +/- 10% in discrete 1% increments (accurate to at least 2 decimal places, such as 122.00xxxx%), easily confirmable with single gems/hides, tied/lumpy bundles, or tied gem pouches. However, in untied gem pouches, EACH gem gets a separate offer, so the % bonus is not a clean discreet percentage. But it can still be useful for making a rough guess to a Trader's bonus with little work of finding the precise bonus level, particularly if the gems are of fairly uniform value, as an untied gem pouch is 70 offerings rolled into one.

⚫	2. The character's Trading Bonus modifies this, by adding a percentage multiplier to the base value. Non-Traders have a 0% Trading bonus and don't ever change. Traders have an inherent bonus that raises their base setting higher than 0%.

⚫	3. This is then further modified by a random +/- 10% in discrete 1% increments (accurate to at least 2 decimal places, such as 122.00xxxx%), easily confirmable with single gems/hides, tied/lumpy bundles, or tied gem pouches. However, in untied gem pouches, EACH gem gets a separate offer, so the % bonus is not a clean discreet percentage. But it can still be useful for making a rough guess to a Trader's bonus with little work of finding the precise bonus level, particularly if the gems are of fairly uniform value, as an untied gem pouch is 70 offerings rolled into one.


	For an example, presume a hypothetical tied gem pouch worth precisely 100,000 kronar (10 plat kronar) when appraised certainly and exactly. When a non-Trader has an NPC gembuyer make an offer on it, they will see a range from 90-110% of the appraisal. That is, offers from 90000 to 110000 kronar, in increments of 1000 kronar (9 plat, 9.1 plat, etc., up to 11 plat).		For an example, presume a hypothetical tied gem pouch worth precisely 100,000 kronar (10 plat kronar) when appraised certainly and exactly. When a non-Trader has an NPC gembuyer make an offer on it, they will see a range from 90-110% of the appraisal. That is, offers from 90000 to 110000 kronar, in increments of 1000 kronar (9 plat, 9.1 plat, etc., up to 11 plat).
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	Tables were constructed in Open Office Calc and formulas reverse-engineered to fit known data, with refinements as new data was obtained.		Tables were constructed in Open Office Calc and formulas reverse-engineered to fit known data, with refinements as new data was obtained.

	<br>
	===Primary Formula===		===Primary Formula===
	The primary formula, or the domain for the piece-wise function, is current/modified charisma times the sum of Trading and Appraisal.<br>		The primary formula, or the domain for the piece-wise function, is current/modified charisma times the sum of Trading and Appraisal.<br>
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	This X is to be plugged into the piecewise functions. Y is the resulting bonus, before Finesse modifier (covered below).		This X is to be plugged into the piecewise functions. Y is the resulting bonus, before Finesse modifier (covered below).

	<br>
	===Piece-wise Formulas===		===Piece-wise Formulas===
	The first formula is for X equal to or less than 2100.<br>		The first formula is for X equal to or less than 2100.<br>
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	===[[Finesse]]===		===[[Finesse]]===
	Finesse is composed of two parts:<br>		Finesse is composed of two parts:<br>
	1. A Charisma bonus that is used in the primary formula.<br>		# A Charisma bonus that is used in the primary formula.<br>
	2. A direct bonus added to Y, of Circle/10, rounded down. This bonus does not scale with mana, it is in full effect as long as Finesse is active.		# A direct bonus added to Y, of Circle/10, rounded down. This bonus does not scale with mana, it is in full effect as long as Finesse is active.

	=== Formula Calculation Example ===		=== Formula Calculation Example ===

	Assume a 40th Trader of 40 Charisma, 200 Trading and 160 Appraisal. This would be an X of 40*(200+160), or 14,440. Plug 14,440 into the step function of ((14,440-444)/2211)+21, and get 6.33+21, or 27% when rounded down. They will see offers randing from 17% to 37%.		Assume a 40th Trader of 40 Charisma, 200 Trading and 160 Appraisal. This would be an X of 40*(200+160), or 14,440. Plug 14,440 into the step function of ((14,440-444)/2211)+21, and get 6.33+21, or 27% when rounded down. They will see offers randing from 17% to 37%.

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	===Miscellaneous Information===		===Miscellaneous Information===
		⚫	Gem pouches can start to be sold at X = 2100 or higher. For most Traders, this is probably basically 20 Charisma and a total of 105 ranks between Trading and Appraisal.<br>
		⚫	Below this, the Trader gets told they don't have enough standing to sell gems in bulk. Doesn't affect bundles of course, since anyone can sell those, and Traders just get the extra income.

		⚫	NPC buyers subject a flat cap of 60% to selling, no matter how high the bonus may be.

⚫	Gem pouches can start to be sold at X = 2100 or higher. For most Traders, this is probably basically 20 Charisma and a total of 105 ranks between Trading and Appraisal.<br>
⚫	Below this, the Trader gets told they don't have enough standing to sell gems in bulk. Doesn't affect bundles of course, since anyone can sell those, and Traders just get the extra income.~~<br><br>~~
⚫	NPC buyers subject a flat cap of 60% to selling, no matter how high the bonus may be.~~<br><br>~~
	The Trader bonus itself appears to be capped at 50%. However, the direct bonus from Finesse bypasses this cap.<br>		The Trader bonus itself appears to be capped at 50%. However, the direct bonus from Finesse bypasses this cap.<br>
	For illustration, Naniaki has been seeing 40%-60% standard offers for almost 6 years despite ever increasing Trading and Appraisal ranks.<br>		For illustration, Naniaki has been seeing 40%-60% standard offers for almost 6 years despite ever increasing Trading and Appraisal ranks.<br>
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	== Tables ==		== Tables ==
		⚫	While no longer necessary, these are included for completeness. Contact Naniaki if you want a copy of the Calc worksheets with all the hard data, formulas, and notes.

⚫	While no longer necessary, these are included for completeness. ~~contact~~ Naniaki if you want a copy of the Calc worksheets with all the hard data, formulas, and notes.

	{\| class="wikitable"		{\| class="wikitable"
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	\|}		\|}
			{{cat\|Trader abilities}}

BLUERIDER: Changed references to Speculate Finesse to the Finesse spell.

2020-09-23T02:04:54Z

Changed references to Speculate Finesse to the Finesse spell.

SCHULTZS3: Final equation determined.

2019-04-01T00:33:50Z

Final equation determined.

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:33, 31 March 2019
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	<b>Y = ((X+444)/2211)+21</b>, rounded down<br>		<b>Y = ((X+444)/2211)+21</b>, rounded down<br>
	This covers a range from 25% to at least 50%, and perhaps beyond if not for caps.<br>		This covers a range from 25% to at least 50%, and perhaps beyond if not for caps.<br>
			444 is correct, as 445 did not cause a rollover to the next point, but not tested at adjacent points.
	Actually, it is still not known PRECISELY, but the slope or divisor (2211) is correct. The adjusting value (the 444) was chosen as it provides an intercept of the second formula at 8400. It is accurate to within 2 points. It could be as low as 446 or as high as 444 and still fit all known data. It's very hard to find practical combinations of Charisma, Trading, and Appraisal that can eliminate the uncertainty, there's few specific possibilities to try for, and would require hours of additional training and possibly respecing Charisma. Furthermore, the inherent error is relatively small. Therefore, this author feels it is not worthwhile to eliminate the small uncertainty. Others might be closer to those points and wish to try for them.

	===(Speculate) Finesse===		===(Speculate) Finesse===

SCHULTZS3: Tightened the range on third piece.

2019-03-03T21:28:12Z

Tightened the range on third piece.

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:28, 3 March 2019
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	<b>Y = ((X+444)/2211)+21</b>, rounded down<br>		<b>Y = ((X+444)/2211)+21</b>, rounded down<br>
	This covers a range from 25% to at least 50%, and perhaps beyond if not for caps.<br>		This covers a range from 25% to at least 50%, and perhaps beyond if not for caps.<br>
	Actually, it is still not known PRECISELY, but the slope or divisor (2211) is correct. The adjusting value (the 444) was chosen as it provides an intercept of the second formula at 8400 ~~and is the center possibility of 5~~. It is accurate to within 2 points. It could be as low as 446 or as high as ~~442~~ and still fit all known data. It's very hard to find practical combinations of Charisma, Trading, and Appraisal that can eliminate the uncertainty, there's few specific possibilities to try for, and would require hours of additional training and possibly respecing Charisma. Furthermore, the inherent error is relatively small. Therefore, this author feels it is not worthwhile to eliminate the small uncertainty. Others might be closer to those points and wish to try for them.		Actually, it is still not known PRECISELY, but the slope or divisor (2211) is correct. The adjusting value (the 444) was chosen as it provides an intercept of the second formula at 8400. It is accurate to within 2 points. It could be as low as 446 or as high as 444 and still fit all known data. It's very hard to find practical combinations of Charisma, Trading, and Appraisal that can eliminate the uncertainty, there's few specific possibilities to try for, and would require hours of additional training and possibly respecing Charisma. Furthermore, the inherent error is relatively small. Therefore, this author feels it is not worthwhile to eliminate the small uncertainty. Others might be closer to those points and wish to try for them.

	===(Speculate) Finesse===		===(Speculate) Finesse===

SCHULTZS3 at 14:19, 13 March 2018

2018-03-13T14:19:51Z

Show changes

SCHULTZS3: Provided example calculation

2017-12-25T07:26:22Z

Provided example calculation

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:26, 25 December 2017
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	Second, for X > 2100; Bonus Y = (X/350)+1, rounded down. You drop from 10% to 7% when stepping from the previous formula to this one. This goes on until at least 20%, probably 25%. This is a guess, but a pretty sure guess.		Second, for X > 2100; Bonus Y = (X/350)+1, rounded down. You drop from 10% to 7% when stepping from the previous formula to this one. This goes on until at least 20%, probably 25%. This is a guess, but a pretty sure guess.

	The third part is estimated to be at X > 8400, with the formula being Y = (X-250)/2200)+21. This is a more inaccurate guess, but it SEEMS to explain all known data. Conflicting information desired.		The third part is estimated to be at X > 8400, with the formula being Y = ((X-250)/2200)+21. This is a more inaccurate guess, but it SEEMS to explain all known data. Conflicting information desired.

	Gem pouches can start to be sold at X = 2100. Or basically 20 Charisma and a total of 105 ranks between Trading and Appraisal.		Gem pouches can start to be sold at X = 2100. Or basically 20 Charisma and a total of 105 ranks between Trading and Appraisal.

			=== Example ===

			Assume a 40th Trader of 40 Charisma, 200 Trading and 160 Appraisal. This would be an X of 40*(200+160), or 14,440. Plug 14,440 into the step function of ((14,440-250)/2200)+21, and get 6.43+21, or 27% when rounded down.

			If using Spec Finesse, let's hypothesize the modified Charisma is 40+8, so it would be 48*(200+160), or 17,280. The results of the step function would be 7.74+21, or 28% when rounded down. However, the Trader adds 4% directly to the bonus for being 40th Circle, and so the final bonus is 32%.

	== Tables ==		== Tables ==

SCHULTZS3: rewording of Spec Finesse's effect

2017-12-25T07:14:17Z

rewording of Spec Finesse's effect

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:14, 25 December 2017
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	The formula is (Trading+Appraisal)*Charisma = X. X is to be compared to the following equations or table to see where your bonus is.		The formula is (Trading+Appraisal)*Charisma = X. X is to be compared to the following equations or table to see where your bonus is.

	When using Speculate Finesse, you must first use your modified Charisma, and then add (Circle/10), rounded down.		When using Speculate Finesse, you must first use your modified Charisma in the above formula, and then add (Circle/10), rounded down, directly to the bonus determined below.

	The range seems broken up into 3 parts.		The range seems broken up into 3 parts.
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	The third part is estimated to be at X > 8400, with the formula being Y = (X-250)/2200)+21. This is a more inaccurate guess, but it SEEMS to explain all known data. Conflicting information desired.		The third part is estimated to be at X > 8400, with the formula being Y = (X-250)/2200)+21. This is a more inaccurate guess, but it SEEMS to explain all known data. Conflicting information desired.

	Gem pouches can be sold at X = 2100. Or basically 20 Charisma and a total of 105 ranks between Trading and Appraisal.		Gem pouches can start to be sold at X = 2100. Or basically 20 Charisma and a total of 105 ranks between Trading and Appraisal.

	== Tables ==		== Tables ==

SCHULTZS3: Added formulas

2017-05-24T06:42:39Z

Added formulas

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:42, 24 May 2017
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	To that end though, a table follows containing data collected by the player of [[Naniaki]] over several years. Plus more characters of his, plus help from Navesi and hopefully others.		To that end though, a table follows containing data collected by the player of [[Naniaki]] over several years. Plus more characters of his, plus help from Navesi and hopefully others.

	The formula is (Trading+Appraisal)*Charisma = X. X is to be compared to the following table to see where your bonus is.		The formula is (Trading+Appraisal)*Charisma = X. X is to be compared to the following equations or table to see where your bonus is.

	When using Speculate Finesse, you must first use your modified Charisma, and then add (Circle/10), rounded down.		When using Speculate Finesse, you must first use your modified Charisma, and then add (Circle/10), rounded down.

			The range seems broken up into 3 parts.

			First, for X =< 2100; Bonus Y = (X/210), rounded down. This goes on to 10%.

			Second, for X > 2100; Bonus Y = (X/350)+1, rounded down. You drop from 10% to 7% when stepping from the previous formula to this one. This goes on until at least 20%, probably 25%. This is a guess, but a pretty sure guess.

			The third part is estimated to be at X > 8400, with the formula being Y = (X-250)/2200)+21. This is a more inaccurate guess, but it SEEMS to explain all known data. Conflicting information desired.

			Gem pouches can be sold at X = 2100. Or basically 20 Charisma and a total of 105 ranks between Trading and Appraisal.

	== Tables ==		== Tables ==

SCHULTZS3 at 23:38, 23 April 2017

2017-04-23T23:38:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:38, 23 April 2017
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	*The first Table includes all information. That includes backtracking from Spec Finesse values higher than 50%, which might include some error.		*The first Table includes all information. That includes backtracking from Spec Finesse values higher than 50%, which might include some error.

	*The second table does not ~~include~~ Speculate Finesse values higher than 50%.		*The second table does not data worked back from Speculate Finesse values higher than 50%.

	{\| class="wikitable"		{\| class="wikitable"

SCHULTZS3 at 23:10, 23 April 2017

2017-04-23T23:10:27Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:10, 23 April 2017
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	\| 20		\| 20
	\| 1260		\| 1260
	\| ~~1340~~		\| 1400
	\| 6		\| 6
	\|-		\|-
	\|		\| 70
	\|		\| 1470
	\|		\| 1470
	\| 7		\| 7
	\|-		\|-
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	\| 20		\| 20
	\| 1260		\| 1260
	\| ~~1340~~		\| 1400
	\| 6		\| 6
	\|-		\|-
	\|		\| 70
	\|		\| 1470
	\|		\| 1470
	\| 7		\| 7
	\|-		\|-

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:04, 22 September 2020
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	<b>Current Charisma*(Trading+Appraisal) = X.</b>		<b>Current Charisma*(Trading+Appraisal) = X.</b>

	This X is to be plugged into the piecewise functions. Y is the resulting bonus, before ~~Spec~~ Finesse modifier (covered below).		This X is to be plugged into the piecewise functions. Y is the resulting bonus, before Finesse modifier (covered below).
	<br>		<br>
	===Piece-wise Formulas===		===Piece-wise Formulas===
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	444 is correct, as 445 did not cause a rollover to the next point, but not tested at adjacent points.		444 is correct, as 445 did not cause a rollover to the next point, but not tested at adjacent points.

	===~~(Speculate)~~ Finesse===		===[[Finesse]]===
	Finesse is composed of two parts:<br>		Finesse is composed of two parts:<br>
	1. a Charisma bonus that is used in the primary formula.<br>		1. A Charisma bonus that is used in the primary formula.<br>
	2. A direct bonus added to Y, of Circle/10, rounded down.		2. A direct bonus added to Y, of Circle/10, rounded down. This bonus does not scale with mana, it is in full effect as long as Finesse is active.

	=== Formula Calculation Example ===		=== Formula Calculation Example ===
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	Below this, the Trader gets told they don't have enough standing to sell gems in bulk. Doesn't affect bundles of course, since anyone can sell those, and Traders just get the extra income.<br><br>		Below this, the Trader gets told they don't have enough standing to sell gems in bulk. Doesn't affect bundles of course, since anyone can sell those, and Traders just get the extra income.<br><br>
	NPC buyers subject a flat cap of 60% to selling, no matter how high the bonus may be.<br><br>		NPC buyers subject a flat cap of 60% to selling, no matter how high the bonus may be.<br><br>
	The Trader bonus itself appears to be capped at 50%. However, the direct bonus from ~~Speculate~~ Finesse bypasses this cap.<br>		The Trader bonus itself appears to be capped at 50%. However, the direct bonus from Finesse bypasses this cap.<br>
	For illustration, Naniaki has been seeing 40%-60% standard offers for almost 6 years despite ever increasing Trading and Appraisal ranks.<br>		For illustration, Naniaki has been seeing 40%-60% standard offers for almost 6 years despite ever increasing Trading and Appraisal ranks.<br>
	However, when using Finesse, he NEVER sees an offer below 56% (currently 165th circle).<br>		However, when using Finesse, he NEVER sees an offer below 56% (currently 165th circle).<br>